Stage Two
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I added my efforts on a Saxophone sound using a sample library plug-in.
I have been motivated to use horn sounds to express melodies and accompaniment on templates from wonderful Wikiloops music makers. Normally I play guitar. Feel free to comment on how you hear the saxophone - there is still controversy on the use of plug-ins to express especially emotive instruments, like Brass, Woodwinds, Violin family and Guitars.
June 23, 2025 at 7:47 PM
tonyx62
You did a great job here Ulfberth
Not going into technical details as I don't play wind instruments, I find the sound quite pleasant and the creative part excellent. Of course those who play and have mastered their instrument will always grasp every little detail and technical nuance, but that's how it should be.:) +2
Not going into technical details as I don't play wind instruments, I find the sound quite pleasant and the creative part excellent. Of course those who play and have mastered their instrument will always grasp every little detail and technical nuance, but that's how it should be.:) +2
June 23, 2025 at 9:18 PM
June 22, 2025 at 11:29 PM
Wade
I'm totally prejudiced, so to my ears this sounds nothing like a sax, just another tone produced by a keyboard and sounds much more like an accordion with slight vibratto. There are much better plug-ins. The notes you play are fine. The lack of expression that would designate any real horn is what lets this sound down. Having breath behind the tone that gives variation to the "attack" and variation in the "sustain and release". is what makes woodwinds and brass "sing". The IWI does this much better as it has OK tone and gives the player the opportunity to give the expression of using breath to make iit sound "real". All one needs to do is learn the fingering and then use their breath to express... rather than spend ten + years learning how to make a decent tone and play in tune.
+1
June 23, 2025 at 6:29 PM
ulfberth
Wade - I love your sax playing and value your opinions, but I don’t think you know much about woodwind sample libraries, you don’t need to, since you are an excellent saxophonist. Unless there is a woodwind digital product that is secret, I’ve explored them all.
Inherently complicated sonically and with a quirky personality it’s hard to replicate a sax. I’ve got a bunch of controller set up to influence the note delivery, including wind, not sure EVI would solve it. On the positive side the sound quality is fantastic. It beats recordings in a reflective room with a buzz going on. But it’s really about applying myself to the music and WikiLoops. Not enough sax players. Many guitarists, so I tried to expand.
It may just be impossible to do a totally convincing sound to satisfy an expert discerning listener.
As an example, I play mostly guitar, but I cannot sound as good as many excellent players on that instrument either. There is an individuality present with players. Whatever shortcomings I have on guitar - I still have an individual sound that nobody else can mimic. Maybe my fake sax reflects something similar.
I had fun trying and frankly my ear accepts the sound. +1
Inherently complicated sonically and with a quirky personality it’s hard to replicate a sax. I’ve got a bunch of controller set up to influence the note delivery, including wind, not sure EVI would solve it. On the positive side the sound quality is fantastic. It beats recordings in a reflective room with a buzz going on. But it’s really about applying myself to the music and WikiLoops. Not enough sax players. Many guitarists, so I tried to expand.
It may just be impossible to do a totally convincing sound to satisfy an expert discerning listener.
As an example, I play mostly guitar, but I cannot sound as good as many excellent players on that instrument either. There is an individuality present with players. Whatever shortcomings I have on guitar - I still have an individual sound that nobody else can mimic. Maybe my fake sax reflects something similar.
I had fun trying and frankly my ear accepts the sound. +1
June 23, 2025 at 11:17 PM
Wade
This place is about having fun, so ultimately it doesn't matter. Do whatever gives you pleasure.
The notes played on any instrument and the rhythm give one level of musicality, which for most instruments can be a lifetime challenge and communicate on several levels. Vocals and instruments that use breath can add another level, but only if that aspect is present. Otherwise that level is not acheived.
I frankly think you'd get a whole new world of enjoyment from trying to play an IWI. It does open that world of using breath to give meaning to notes and it's not a difficult instrument to learn... similar to playing a recorder, however if one is already an accomplished musician then you bring all of the experience to the instrument. +1
The notes played on any instrument and the rhythm give one level of musicality, which for most instruments can be a lifetime challenge and communicate on several levels. Vocals and instruments that use breath can add another level, but only if that aspect is present. Otherwise that level is not acheived.
I frankly think you'd get a whole new world of enjoyment from trying to play an IWI. It does open that world of using breath to give meaning to notes and it's not a difficult instrument to learn... similar to playing a recorder, however if one is already an accomplished musician then you bring all of the experience to the instrument. +1
June 27, 2025 at 6:55 PM
ulfberth
The EWI instruments register strength of air stream from the mouthpiece only. Vibrato to some extent but difficult.
Embouchure, throat, voice is not part of the midi information.
Expression wheels, pedals, sliders offer CC-midi to control the same parameters; wind pressure, modulation, expression and vibrato. It’s not enough to sound as nuanced as a real sax played by a real player.
Keyboards went through developments, where they failed to sound like real acoustic instruments, but Electric Pianos, Moog and other version of keyboards had their own sound that became loved and accepted. I gave it a try to use the saxophone sound to express musical motifs. The sound is quite good and I don’’t want “perfect” to be the enemy of “good”.
I may not have been motivated to try if there were more woodwind players on Wikiloops. Or busier.
This track needs interpretation by more players.
Love to hear Wade playing on this tune ! +1
Embouchure, throat, voice is not part of the midi information.
Expression wheels, pedals, sliders offer CC-midi to control the same parameters; wind pressure, modulation, expression and vibrato. It’s not enough to sound as nuanced as a real sax played by a real player.
Keyboards went through developments, where they failed to sound like real acoustic instruments, but Electric Pianos, Moog and other version of keyboards had their own sound that became loved and accepted. I gave it a try to use the saxophone sound to express musical motifs. The sound is quite good and I don’’t want “perfect” to be the enemy of “good”.
I may not have been motivated to try if there were more woodwind players on Wikiloops. Or busier.
This track needs interpretation by more players.
Love to hear Wade playing on this tune ! +1
June 27, 2025 at 11:12 PM
Wade
I probaby already downloaded it. I have no idea as I'm fairly "greedy" and download heaps. Recording and editing can take years. The one you comented on today is more than 1 1/2 years old. Almost nothing comes back within a month. I have hundreds of finished tracks and hundreds more not yet edited. So you may hear this one sometime in the next few years. A different reality.
Although you think the site needs more sax or other melodic instruments, it's my experience in having experimented (some years ago) in posting a track a day of some of my best recordings, nobody listened. What's the point of sharing our music if nobody listens? So I restrict my output to a maximum of two tracks a week, and it's more likely to be just one.
As you already realize this site is primairly about guitar, drums, bass, keys, and vocals. The other isntruments get a listen in small doses. That's just reality. Those who post a lot more get a few "Facebook" style you scratch my back, I scratch yours sorts of "likes". I'm just here for the music... to encourage and to share. If nobody listens and just does "likes" there is no point.
Look around at the players who play those "other" instruments and post a lot. Do they get a lot of listens or comments?
Wikiloops is strangely like a "marketplace". The comodities that everybody buys all the time are those popular instruments. The "fringe" instruments only have demand if more rarely available. I'd like to think of myself as a keen observer of "the obvious" as it works here. There is no "market/demand" here for me to post more than 2 tracks a week. My fellow odd instrument players who post more might be thinking it doesn't matter to them. However it matters to me.
Last odd reality: I'm nearly 79. It's hard to say how much longer I can play with arthritis and other realities. The hundreds of tracks I have can be edited and posted for some years past my "use by" date, or even my death. Old people think in terms of "Legacy". What's the legacy of posting thousands of tracks that nobody listened to which stops when you stop? +0
Although you think the site needs more sax or other melodic instruments, it's my experience in having experimented (some years ago) in posting a track a day of some of my best recordings, nobody listened. What's the point of sharing our music if nobody listens? So I restrict my output to a maximum of two tracks a week, and it's more likely to be just one.
As you already realize this site is primairly about guitar, drums, bass, keys, and vocals. The other isntruments get a listen in small doses. That's just reality. Those who post a lot more get a few "Facebook" style you scratch my back, I scratch yours sorts of "likes". I'm just here for the music... to encourage and to share. If nobody listens and just does "likes" there is no point.
Look around at the players who play those "other" instruments and post a lot. Do they get a lot of listens or comments?
Wikiloops is strangely like a "marketplace". The comodities that everybody buys all the time are those popular instruments. The "fringe" instruments only have demand if more rarely available. I'd like to think of myself as a keen observer of "the obvious" as it works here. There is no "market/demand" here for me to post more than 2 tracks a week. My fellow odd instrument players who post more might be thinking it doesn't matter to them. However it matters to me.
Last odd reality: I'm nearly 79. It's hard to say how much longer I can play with arthritis and other realities. The hundreds of tracks I have can be edited and posted for some years past my "use by" date, or even my death. Old people think in terms of "Legacy". What's the legacy of posting thousands of tracks that nobody listened to which stops when you stop? +0
Jazz-Rock backing tracks with Drums, Keys, Bass and Saxophone:
best liked Jazz-Rock:
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SEVEN
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Forgotten Dreams (without Drums)
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Walking Down
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The Lab
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Coffee Chocolate and Nutmeg Spice
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Where Did My Life Go
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Mystic Trance
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On Sunday Nights
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Got no home (Roamin')
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The Leaver
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WOW Baby (NO SAX)
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A Half Forgotten Dream
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Space Fusion
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If I Could See You Now
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Hammond and Fender add
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Standard Issue
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Thinking kids
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12 Monkeys
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Whirling
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Mentra 6/8 Plus
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kimbo