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Footprints in the digital sand

posted on #21
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A very very sad new for our community...
RIP Baba...
Edited by titi on July 16 2017 22:26
posted on #22
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Bye Ian. RIP.
rp3 (Raymond)
posted on #23
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Could it be an idea to have a Wikiloops radio channel for memorial tributes? It seems to me that most of the members here would like their music to live on. Upon registering as a user here it could be a tick box saying something like "In unfortunate case of me passing i'd like my music to live on"

Anyways, always sad when people pass away :( RIP Ian <3
posted on #24
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RIP Ian. Such sad news.
posted on #25
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Sad news. Rest in peace Ian, I'll remember the jams we shared.
posted on #26
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Oh no. So very sad. May God keep you in His arms Ian<3
posted on #27
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Uloisius wrote:
Ich finde es gut das du dieses Thema hier ansprichst.
Ein Formular das man hier ausfüllen kann um festzulegen was mit dem eigenen digitalen Erbe hier geschehen soll fände ich sinnvoll. Den Vorschlag zu Hause ein Papier für die Hinterbliebenen zu hinterlegen in dem mitgeteilt wird was zu tun ist in diesem Fall finde ich ebenfalls gut.
Die Idee mit dem "on tour" finde ich gut und als Kennzeichnung könnte ich mir eine dezente, schwarze Banderole an einer Ecke des Profilbildes vorstellen.
Ich finde es wichtig das wir hier darüber sprechen ...

I like Uli's idea.
I prefer everything I've done here at the loops to remain here after I go jam with Jimi.
Personally I prefer a cross symbol to inform of my departure.
Thanks for asking Dick.
Edited by FrankieJ on July 18 2017 12:20
posted on #28
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You know what is a a great idea for members like babazit is to let his music live forever on Wikiloops. None of us are stars or celebrities (I am in my own mind), but we are here on the loops! We all have given our heart and soul to this project, our blood sweat and tears! I say the music lives on forever. Always remembered and cherished. And always up for another added track! Let's do a Babazit greatest hits. Dick?
rp3 (Raymond)
posted on #29
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Hmmm, rp3drums post ends on my username and a questionmark, but I'm not 100% sure I understood what the question is.
I initially started this thread quite a while before Babbazitt passed away, and I have been asking for your understanding that I am in a difficult situation handling any kind of "let's build a shrine"/"release a memorial album" requests.

My private thoughts are: I have never met Babbazitt face to face, but we exchanged quite a lot of emails, and especially his views on copyright issues were of great help to me when operating wikiloops. I was touched by the little I learned about this man, from what I could gather between his lines and from his actions. He did not tell me to tell you anything about all that, and yes, I am saddened by the news. May he be at peace and freed from any burdens.

My wikiloops-operator-views are: As outlined in my initial post, I do not think it is a good idea to rush into anything which might be accidently just opposed to what the deceased member would have wanted (as the example with automatic religious symbols gone wrong...).
If any member out there feels the need to create songs in memory of Babbazit, to create a memorial album, exchange feelings and thoughts via the wikiloops forum or whatever else, then that is absolutely allowed on wikiloops.
Even if someone feels he would want to change his avatar pic to a "Je suis Babbazitt"-slogan, I would not interfere (tho I'd like to say I'd think that would be very strange). I deliberately chose this strange example, because such things do happen on the internet.
Please do not feel offended, I certainly do not miss your good intentions, but as the 'loops operator, I need to stay aware that we are all subject to what I would call a "social media hype"-type of dealing with events as this one.
For anyone who may have felt wikiloops was missing out on some kind of public statement and clickworthy mourning presentation - my apologies for not having met that expectation. I just do not feel like turning a sad event into some kind of virtual hype (not that you were about to do that), so - with your kind permission - I would like to leave it at that.

As I said before, anyone is free to do whatever feels right, but please excuse me from any collaborations on this matter, I really do have a lot of things on my plate, another death very close in my family (no comments, thank you) and wikiloops version 10 coming up in 12 days from tonight.

I do hope Babbazitt would have approved of where I'm taking wikiloops, he could be a bit of a hardliner on some topics, and I remember his words and we'll know where to find his music as wikiloops goes on.
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

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posted on #30
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God speed Ian. RIP.
posted on #31
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Don_T wrote:

I don't think there is an easy answer to this problem, but I agree we should continue to brainstorm it and come up with a way for those who will, to contact the loops and let us know of the passing.

Good point Don. I have written instructions for someone (one of my daughters) to notify the Loops (Dick) if I pass. In addition, I have shared my wishes with my wife. Never easy to discuss these things but necessary. I would want my music to remain on the Loops. Odd maybe, but I've never considered music something I "own". I like to believe that it is simply our opportunity to make the world a better place and possibly bring some joy into someone's life.
Of course, if I had more talent and it was marketable I might feel differently:) I hope not, but it is nothing I need concern myself with either.
posted on #32
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Hello friends,
i like the idea to create a kind of symbol for musicians that left us much to early. I had allready thought about something like that earlyer bevor in the days when Irlenn Silva has left us. Irlenns family members wanted to stay him and his music alive and so i think. I think every musician wants to stay his music alive when he died. I like the idea every one who still lives when i was gone can come back to the loops and remember the music i was a part from. Yes - i think we should let the channels stay alive and yes - there should be a kind of a sign, that this musician will not answer on any new song.

Rest in Peace Irlenn
Rest in Peace Ian
Edited by Basster on July 20 2017 10:39
Tha bass has to be a lil louder...!
posted on #33
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Perhaps under the members name it could just read
In Memory Of


Rest In Peace
Edited by arron on July 20 2017 17:54
posted on #34
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Excellent issue and topic. And Richard you are absolutely correct to have contingencies in place should Fate or The Universe take a wrong turn.

My two cents:

Issues seem to be
i) ensuring that notice of passing is genuine
ii) perpetual presence in the online plane
iii) managing the legacy
iv) ownership of the legacy

i) is difficult - agree that verification requires confirmation by a valid representative of the Looper. Not sure whether it is the place of Wikiloops to become a notifier of members passing; but it is a kind gesture that honours the Looper. But it would require consent of the representative that it would be what the Looper would have wanted. In the absence of this, remaining silently respectful is probably the best course for you.

ii) is possible where server space and hyperlink access permits. Blogs and Youtube channels presumably will survive the passing of the creator and become perpetual memorials. Presumably - even cemeteries ultimately get dug over for development. Gosh, this is a cheery forum post… Not sure about crosses and the like on a member's page, though Fivestringer's suggestion for the rest on a stave is universal, non-controversial, and very apt.

iii) linked with ii) above. Insensitive as it might appear to sound (and I have no wish to offend), it has to be said that maintaining a Looper's page as a memorial realistically and ultimately requires financing. Server space, maintenance, ongoing virtual presence - is not free. As I understand it, at the end of it all Wikiloops is a business with a corporate existence and not a charity; charitable status can confer some benefits (e.g. ability to receive donations tax efficiently) but as a business, the taxman has to generally see any contributions as income until exemptions kick in. One legal option might be to set up a Trust to manage it all, with trustees overseeing the operation. But this is theory - if we can't get enough Loopers to donate now, how to generate enough funds to sponsor this kind of memorial? I don't know too much about the online process of managing the passing, but a digital download to attach to a will seems to make a lot of sense. To include instruction as to how we would hope our collaborations would be managed in the hereafter - take them down, maintain them, lodge them in a Wikiloops Hall of Fame - and provide a financial legacy to pay for it! The Universities get their past graduates to settle a sum upon their passing to fund future graduates - wonder whether Wikiloops could benefit from something similar?

iv) - As I understand it, Loopers own their uploaded contribution whereby the process of uploading confers a license for other Loopers to use in future collaborations. So in principle the Looper's contribution remains intellectual property which can be willed to successors. Its presence on the Wikiloops site seems perpetual, as in the initial uploading the Looper has consented to that contribution being able to be used by other Loopers in future jams. Not quite sure of the property status of the resulting jam and who or what owns it. But I guess someone or something has to - the business monster mindset demands that this be so. How to beat the business monster? That is a work in progress…

I apologise if the above comes across as cold. As said, I do not wish to appear insensitive. Just offering thoughts.

In closing, all of us Loopers touch each other's lives with our jams and comments. We are all community - Dick has created it so that we respect each other's contributions and celebrate the jams. I had never met Ian but we exchanged some messages and we had some jams along the way. He seemed a large character and full of life and love for music. In all the creative arts and music and theatre projects in which I have been involved, a bond gets forged between all the participants - we have chipped in bits of our soul to collectively create something temporal, something grand, and something beyond meaningful. I find it to be the same with the Loopers with whom I have collaborated - whether one believes in the hereafter or not, I feel our souls are in these jams. And I feel we ARE our jams - this amazing little project that I sometimes take so much for granted and which lets us touch the infinite and create something wonderful. Beyond words. Babba touched my life as I touched his, and I am sad that he has gone and I regret that I did not make more of an effort to get to know him. I hope our jams have a little Gladiator Echo through Eternity. Rock In Peace my friend. Rock in Peace.
posted on #35
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I agree with the kind of symbol.
"Gone on tour" is an idea or I think about stars or/and crescent moon in overlay in a corner of the avatar...

Members gone will stay with us by their music

As Basster , I will say :
Rest in Peace Irlenn (the first track I posted on wikiloops was with one of his drums track)
Rest in Peace Ian

posted on #36
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Have waited a long time to reply to this most soul searching post from Richard. That's partly due to Ian's passing and not wanting to seem insensitive to those who have had the normal/expected response to the loss of a friend and colleague.

Wish I had the religious sort of connection that made me think dead people can hear our thoughts and feelings. That just seems like guilt from those who are still alive and possibly wish they had said all those nice things while someone was alive.

We have a lot of members and have made some excellent connections through this wonderful site. I'm challenging all of you to think daily about what those connections mean and tell each other how much that connection and person means to you. (IMHO) it means nothing once they are gone yet could mean so much to them while alive.

If we know that a member is not well, or dying, we should especially support them with love while they are alive...it may even help them recover. I'd like to hear the social tom toms beat out a call to support our friends and members when in need and while they are still around.

Another “not discussed” aspect is to give something back to the loops on our death via a bequest. It's obviously difficult for Richard to ask people to do this. Universities have no problem in pushing alumni to put them in their wills. What are we willing to give back for what we have got from this place?

Hopefully this has not offended as I have deep respect for other's beliefs. Just wanting to give pause for some other ways to think about these things.

I've got little/nothing to add in terms of symbols but like the idea of going on the infinity tour (a figure eight on it's side).
posted on #37
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I was kind of thinking a page devoted to those who have passed. I dunno. Bad idea?
posted on #38
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Lots of interesting ideas. Personally I like the idea of a page with everyone that has passed, and then clickable links to each of their musics respectively. I don't think it needs a lot of dialogue in terms of explaining reasoning or anything like that...maybe just say something simple and sweet . Then some sort of musical note avatar that resides next to their names for all eternity. Perhaps a single note with wings? Or maybe a ghost note? Could be anything really ..hard to say as it's one those subjects that are very deep ...but doesn't necessarily have to be so heavy that something appropriate can't be figured out.
posted on #39
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Hey folks,
I noticed one of babbazitts albums is featured album of today, so that reminded me of this thread and the necessity to round that off in some way.
I added a small "passed away" notice in the spot where one usually finds the buttons to send a private message to both Ians and Irlenns profile and skipped the icon all the way in this first attempt.
I do hope the way I worded the message seems OK to you, and I certainly hope I will not have to add such messages often.
May they rest in peace, and their music live on for long :)
Thank you all for your participation in this discussion and your support to wikiloops.
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

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posted on #40
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I think this is a good solution Dick
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