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Why I left Wikiloops

posted on #1
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Some of you are asking.

Reason being Wade ran me off. Didn't feel Wade should be making (perceived to me)negative public comments on some member's uploads. Example.."If you didn't post so many remixes..more would listen""..Wade has 5 monikers here that I know of. "You are outta tune..." Not sure how/why those comments can't be made via a PM. I myself just viewed them as a form of public humiliation/and or bullying. Enuf of that on other Social Media sites. Wikiloops was a great escape to get away from that form of behavior..however it was upsetting to me, and well..I just can't find myself to support that behavior. Listening to remixes, I run the risk of of finding a Wade comment that I feel shoulda been a PM, which in turn makes Wikioops "toxic". Uncalled for in my book. Tried to remedy it..no luck.

Took it up with mods, took it up with Dick ....asking WTF???. After a couple weeks, got an explanation from Dick that was unsatisfactory for me...so decided to pull my support status and find other sources.
And now...here to see after a few weeks... if Dick did indeed canceled my support status..I see he hasn't.
Not impressed.

So for me that's it. More hypocrisy about Wade's comments when running a couple of his HD tracks on my tuner. Don't think he should be making comments about tuning issues.

Was fun...enjoyed jammin' with you all. But I'll no longer be recommending Wikiloops to anyone.
Y'all be well and take care :)

Mark
posted on #2
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Joined: 30.12.10
Hey Mark,
I know you'll most likely have been asked, because you most definitely have been missed on wikiloops.
It is your good right to leave the community if you wish, but I'm not sure if this here is really the way to go?
Well, it's your decision, and I value and respect you for long enough to let you have your way.

However concerning this:
Fishinmissio wrote:
...if Dick did indeed canceled my support status..I see he hasn't.
Not impressed.


I'd like to clarify that I do not "cancel support statuses" for the following reasons:
1st: Support status represents a "product" which you purchased, I do not touch that
2nd: You asked me to "cancel your support", which I can't. wikiloops is not collecting support from you by means of some payment plan or recurring payments, so there is nothing to technically cancel on my end.

I'm not really around here to impress anyone anyways, and I'm not going to justify myself here for what obviously happened between you and Wade.
You and me have had an open exchange on the topic, and I told you openly there was little I could do for you.
You obviously can't enjoy wikiloops any longer.
That's saddening indeed, but I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

I'll not close your account since you didn't ask me to, and yes, I see the chance you might be happy to re-use it one day (it has happened quite a lot of times in the past 11 years).

I'd also appreciate if you would leave the "explaining" part at rest from here on,
I don't see a lot of good coming from casting blame.
Those who were wondering will know now, OK then.
posted on #3
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Sorry to see you go. You are a terrific talent, Mark. And a good heart is always a grace.
posted on #4
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No matter what other people say, I think you're an excellent musician. I'm going to miss you Fish. <3
posted on #5
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Very sorry to lose you Mark especially under such circumstances. Your saxophone playing is always full of passion and honesty and with an eye to always improve which means a great deal to me. I love your sequenced/programmed tracks too. I consider you a friend with whom I’ve enjoyed much private correspondence always full of your humour and insight😎 your adds will be much missed by many I’m sure. Once again I’m really sorry you’ve had to make such a decision I’m sure it wasn’t easy for you. Be well my dear friend❤️🎵🎶😎 and I personally hope you’ll change your mind and stay. WL’s needs good souls like you❤️😎🎶🎵
Edited by Blazer on April 04 2022 23:37
posted on #6
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Joined: 10.11.17
Hi Mark,
Criticisms are sometimes hurtful even if at the source they are not malicious ... If it is true that Wade has a critical mind, I do not imagine him to be malicious for all that ... Besides, if you ask Wade not to bother you anymore, I have no doubt that it will be recorded...
Seems to me that the WikiLoops space is big enough not to step on your toes...
I appreciated your collaborations <3 and for me it would be regrettable if you leave WikiLoops... :|
If your idea is already made up with the intention of leaving, then please leave like a gentleman would, so you'll be more comfortable coming back and we'll be seeing you again.;)
My sincere friendly greetings,:W
Ray
Edited by StJray on April 05 2022 06:21
Stj Ray
posted on #7
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Hoping you reconsider Mark :)
posted on #8
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ah.. dude... gonna miss you truly!
posted on #9
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Sorry to hear all this Mark. I have had some remarkable jams with you here and you have the quirky sax playing down solid, I liked that a lot. You will be missed.:|
posted on #10
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If you leave and come back you will be as well received as when you were here!!
If you decide to leave and it is what your heart asks of you, it will be a wise decision too
Many musicians on the site will not forget your great work here or your sense of humor

See you and hear from you soon...I hope...;)
Edited by GlezBass on April 05 2022 23:27
:)
posted on #11
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Amigo Mark....
I am very sorry to see that you leave the loops, each one is free to act as their heart and head dictate, and I respect your decision, although it makes me sad, since your Saxo has served me in some Jam of inspiration, and your style and unique sound from the first day I found this place, with you it was one of my first jams and believe me that I have always adored you, for your know-how and your brilliant ideas, I have to admit that I have not been able to support you in all your jams, due to lack of time to be able to listen to all the works that are published...
If one day you think of coming back, you know you will be well received and welcome....
greetings from your friend Xavier
posted on #12
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I don't think it's necessary for me to justify anything I've done, although it seems obvious that on one occasion I made a comment (more than a year ago?) that offended Mark.

The following are the PMs exchanged from that time with nothing changed or missing. If you can be bothered reading them (including my apology to him) you can then judge for yourself. I stopped commenting on his tracks some time ago, and he posted numerous tracks since that time. Leaving in a huff many months and tracks since doesn't quite fit. I don't know what Mark's problem is, and I'm very sorry that he's chosen me as his excuse. Hopefully he will find peace.

One year ago Wade to Mark:

Was just having a listen to your track with Martin and Mario (which I also added to) 193687. Your playing on this is really outstanding. Unfortunately your recording/mix is horribly distorted. It's all shifted to high frequencies with lots of "hiss". Man, you shouldn't be doing this to yourself!

This is a very good track and a killer if you just use the full spectrum of sound and not just the frequencies above 2000 hertz. I can't stress enough how you've played so well (timing, note choice, mood/feel) and then trashed it. I don't know how you're doing this, but you need to stop and change your settings so that you're not destroying fine tracks like this.

If you're running your finished track through an equalizer...don't as the settings are wrong. if you're using some "plug in"...don't. Whatever it is eliminate it. If you think this sounds "right" then it's time to go to the audiologist. No joke! I know that I've got a range of sounds (1200 to 2500 hertz) for which I'm slightly deaf, so I'm careful not to boost those to where I hear them, but others are hearing too much in that range.

I have no idea what you're doing wrong, but can try to help if I knew how you're processing your sound.

If your hearing is right and this is the sound you want...well disregard all of the above...what can I say?

8 months ago (after a remark Mark made) From Wade to Mark:

Where is this coming from:

"And if you wanna speak about "Ego"...nice job displaying your own ego amongst sax players Wade" ?

If you've got something to say to me or complain about please do so directly. Throwing dirt on others in a public forum is a pretty nasty thing to do. If I have something to apologize for/about I'd like to know as it was certainly nothing intentional.



8 months ago Mark to Wade:

I suggest you go back and review the comments you have made on some of my remixes in the Public Forum..then ..follow your own advice, and be thankful I don't reciprocate.




8 months ago Wade to Mark:

I make comments to lots of people and often they are strait observations meant to help. Likewise I appreciate it when someone is honest and gives me that type of assistance. Being able to hear through others ears can be of enormous benefit. We don't always hear or recognize what others may hear.

We all have an opportunity to grow by being open. Pats on the back are fine, but don't necessarily help.

You are the only person who seems to be offended. Once again I apologize if you think I've somehow stepped over the line. If you have an example of this please let me know as I don't know of it.

I've obviously not made any (further) comments as you made it clear that they are not welcome. Which is OK. Throwing mud at each other isn't OK and if you think I have let me know.


2 months ago (after Mark made some sniping comments) Wade to Mark:

You've made it clear to me that you don't want me to listen to your tracks or comment, so I don't. That's fine. However it seems that you're carrying some sort of bitterness and need to make sniping comments. Why? If you're doing what you want to do and enjoying yourself then what is there to be bitter and nasty about?

Is there some sort of creed/club that you're representing of encouraging players who post too much? Don't be bitter. Think, relax, and do whatever it is that motivates and makes you feel satisfied. Life's too short for negative energy.

2 months ago Mark to Wade:

The hell with you. First off making comments like that in Public. You lecture me on "Negative Energy"?? WTF? We talked about that before. Do you not understand how to PM someone? and..Quit thinking the whole world hears music through your ears. Honestly...of all the musicians Ive heard here..those with the most remixes are the most improved. Or..Be like you..think you are the shit...feed your own Ego and be comfy with playing like you got a stick up your butt. I said initially I would not comment on your playing....but honestly..I've about had it with your Public Shaming. And I'm about 1/16th of an inch from bringing it up..either in a Public Forum..or with Dick And if you think you are fooling everyone having 5 monikers..Not so..your phrasing is a dead giveaway.

Not just my opinion...many have re enforced my thoughts..few go down the path I do...but they are out there...trust me.

You bitch about those with "Ego"...Go look in a mirror
Edited by Wade on April 06 2022 11:16
You're only as old as you smell
posted on #13
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Thought I would check back and see what feedback I'd left gong back more than a year (besides the exchange above by PM). I found three tracks of Mark's. They are below along with my comments:

January 17, 2021
Track: Together and Alone

Wade: Nice accents with good tone and feeling.

March 6. 2021
Track: Rambling in Da Flat

Wade: This is one I'd downloaded, but won't record. You've played this so well that I can't imagine it being done any better. Welcome back Mark. It's so good to hear you playing up to your potential.

July 13, 2021
Track: Loop the Loopers

Wade: Smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth

The PMs and Mark's tracks and my comments are all a matter of record. This feels to me like a "hit and run".

I sincerely hope that Mark finds peace.
You're only as old as you smell
posted on #14
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Joined: 27.09.14
Hello guys,

I have been following this "saga" for a while now, from a moderating place and also from a regular Looper's point of view.. I have to say that I feel a bit uncomfortable about this thread, for reasons that most Wikiloopers probably know - we try to keep conflict and bad vibes away from Wikiloops.

It is not the first time the subject of what is acceptable and positive feedback and what is considered criticising in a negative way has been discussed and chewed. It is complicated and not easy. It is obviously easy just to say to everyone "great track, well done" when it's obviously a bad one, plus if you don't say anything, how do the players get better?? A really difficult one...we have to be sensitive.

Regarding this specific beef between Wade and Fishi, I think both have now said what they feel about this. I think it's a shame that Fishi feels that way, I could not find anything that was so out of the order that one would want to leave, but it is his right not to be in Wikiloops anymore. He feels that Wikiloops is "Toxic", it's his view - I don't share this at all.

So we wish him good luck anyway, and maybe he will come back one day after he cooled down. Life is too short - I actually once wrote and even sang a song for Fishi #149642

I would like with this post to close this thread and kindly ask that we leave it this way.

Thanks, and see you out there - <3 TeeGee
posted on #15
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To solve this problem there is an easy solution.

Only "little yellow faces" in the "comments section" of a song. No more comments.

Comments should only be made via personnal mail between 2 persons. (No more public comments).
:o
posted on #16
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Sad to hear that and sorry to see you going Mark. I know from own experience that public written-only communication can be difficult sometimes and often misleading when mimics and the little nuances in voice are missing... thanks for the sessions and especially your bossa playing! If you decice to come back one day feel very welcome ;)
Edited by SoulFingers on April 06 2022 19:19
posted on #17
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Joined: 15.04.14
Can I put in my 2 pennies worth? I have seen behind the scenes how hard admin work to keep the peace.Also musicians are nortiously sensitive by nature...its very impressive that this place is the least toxic place I know. But it is cause of diligence. However things cant be controlled at all times. I myself have developed thick skin and I know, big egos get easily offended. This message is not directed at any artist specifically...but remember this is a sacred thing we got goin on and we ought to treat it with the respect it deserves<3<3<3
Edited by Tu on April 08 2022 14:21
posted on #18
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Joined: 16.11.19
I was surprised by Mark's disappearance and his 'C-ya' comment on the chat feed. The man has a great sense of humour and doubtless had plans to be less involved in the 'loops. Some bad blood went down and that must've been 'the tipping point.' Exit mark and giving me some things to reflect on, like, well, another missed opportunity to collect someone's email address or business card.
Michael Bender
posted on #19
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Joined: 27.02.15
I've genuinely only scan-read this thread because I actually don't want to be involved in the inter-person issues. Mark: to me, you are an integral part of my Wikiloops 'life'. You're on my 'showcases'. I love your work, so to speak. Please reconsider.

I know I've been an awful 'looper' in terms of feedback but you're a great player with a musicianship I massively respect, despite your own attempts to play down your phenomenal talent.

Please look at your music output and not other issues. Because you represent, to me, part of the loops I joined.
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #20
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Joined: 02.04.17
I really like your comment Ray, and I certainly consider that sometimes comments, depending on your mood can be hurtful.
Wade has made some comments to me, especially in the beginning that at first annoyed me, but then objectively analyzed, I realized that he was right and that they improved my musical style.
I will always remember, when he told me... don't put so many ornamental notes because they are useless and I thought... ehhh what's wrong? and as I said, I analyzed it and he was right.
I think Wade is a good musician and as it couldn't be otherwise, a good person. I think there is a misunderstanding in all this or a lack of tuning that I hope will be resolved because Mark is an excellent musician and I would hate to stop hearing. After all, we are all musicians and it is incredible that there is no other language in WL than musical.
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