Angabe von Noten, Akkorden oder Tonarten

Was ich mal loswerden muß!
Ich finde es nicht gut das in letzter Zeit die Angabe von Noten, Akkorden oder Tonarten vernachlässigt wird. Dick hat sich da bestimmt so seine Gedanken gemacht.
Ich gehe auch nicht in den Probenraum und schmeiße meinen Musik Kollegen die Musik vor den Kopf und alle sind sofort Feuer und Flamme wenn sie nicht wissen was genau ich da mache.
Wie wollen wir uns denn als Community präsentieren, wenn wir behaupten, diese ist für alle da? Viele Leute, unter anderem ich, haben vielleicht nicht immer Lust (anderen fehlt vielleicht das Wissen), sich erst mit dem Herausfinden von Akkorden usw. zu beschäftigen. Ich finde mindestens die Tonart anzugeben, sollte schon der Musikerstolz mit sich bringen!
Wenn ich jammen will und das ist das Ziel dieser Internetseite, sollten wir alle versuchen uns die Mühe zumachen, es allen anderen so einfach wie möglich zu gestalten, mit zu jammen ohne die Lust zu verlieren. Wäre schön, wenn diese Möglichkeit wieder mehr mit Leben gefüllt würde.


Da mein English bekanntlich schlecht ist, wäre es sehr nett, wenn sich einer bereit erklärt diese Worte zu übersetzen.

Weiterhin viel Spaß und viel Kreativität!

Gruß
Adu

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This is a translation of the post above from Adu, as he is too lazy to write English :P. TG

"I have to get this off my chest!!
I think it is not good that is neglected lately by people to specify notes, chords or keys of songs/tracks. I am sure Dick has his thoughts about that too.

I don't go into a rehearsal room and throw my musical colleagues the music to the head and expect all to be exited and happy when they do not know exactly what I was doing.

How do we want to present ourselves as a community when we say this site is for everyone?

Many people, I among others, might not always feel like first having to deal with the finding of chords, etc...(others might even lack the knowledge for it). I think that indicating at least the key of a song is something a musicians should pride himself to do.

If I just want to jam - and this is the aim of this website - then we should all put in the small effort effort to make it as easy as possible all others to jam and not lose the desire to do so.

It would be nice if this feature would be animated a little bit more.

Since my English is notoriously bad, it would be very nice if someone agreed to translate these words.

Wishing you a lot of fun and a lot of creativity!"

P.S. I hope I did ok with this ADU, I am not a Shakspeare by all means :)

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Edited by TeeGee on May 18 2016 19:45

Many Thanks TG ;)

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I would like to say I agree. There seems to be an "attitude" from *some* people that if you can't figure out the notes on your own, then you aren't any good as a musician. I've received condescending remarks from people telling me to "figure it out myself", or "Just do it by ear", because they look down on people who aren't skilled enough to instantly recognize any note by ear.

This attitude from some people is somewhat annoying, and to be honest I still can't tell any notes by ear. What I can do is use software which detects chords/notes, and then I join the jam. I guess it's a good exercise to figure it out, but i'd rather just have people specify it instead of being snobby about it.

Like I told one person: I'm not a child prodigy who can tell notes on the fly, and a lot of us are not. I really don't understand the resistance to providing this info.

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Edited by Girard on May 19 2016 03:15

Hey guys,
I have been trying to stress the point of good song declarations and providing chords in many ways, but the truth is people cannot be forced to take this good advice.
I must add that I have doubts about the chances of changing that by writing a forum post ( with a german title and opener - sorry, had to address that ).
I believe the most constructive way to deal with the "problem" is to provide a filtering option "show tracks with chords only" in the future, and to add a stronger hint to the upload form, along the lines of "increase your remix chances - add some chords".
To feel offended because people did not enter chords is not helpfull I'm affraid, and I can think of a lot of other reasons than making you feel bad why people skip entering chords. Just my ,02 cents :-)

Hi Folks,
Just my testimony. I never have a look at what the chord(s)could be, just because it's no use for me.
So I never fill up that section when uploading. Sorry^^
I'll try to do it if it helps.
But for example around funky or jazzy chords I could make it false.
I'm a self-taught player and I've forgotten the few things I knewn about music writting.
I'll try at least to tell what the tone is.

Some Loopers are skilled around this.
Is there a way to let a looper fill up another looper's chords section?

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the chords tab is a real nice feature thanks to Dick for making it available ;)
i find myself very often checking out what has been filled in there ... most of the times i'm kinda disapointed but yes it could also happen that i get a big smile detailing a full track from the reading :)

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It's a pity we can't add to it or correct stuff, unless I am mistaken.

I personally often don't know the names of the chords unless they are basic ones...:(

It's a pity we can't add to it or correct stuff, unless I am mistaken.

I personally often don't know the names of the chords unless they are basic ones...:(

Maybe make it so you can't upload unless you specify chords? Or at very least what key it is in?

Perhaps an alternative is to allow people to add a chord sheet with their upload if one isn't present? Just thinking out loud.

This is a good idea Martin and Stan, but the people have to do it ;)
I was never offended or bored, because here and there no chords were indicated. I just think that all users should be given the opportunity to fully and completely bring here if they wish.

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I'd really like to do it if it helps. I couldn't figure it out.
I immediatly recognize and memorize a chord or a serie of notes when I listen to it and replay them.
Check out my last tracks. I could spend much more time writting what I've done than playing it. But I could also make it false... It would be useless...

I'm gonna learn back how to do it properly. But if skilled loopers can do it for the players who can't do it, it could be a way to learn...

Same problem with the rythm... 4/4 6/8 etc... I never count. So...
If these sections were unlocked they could be completed back?

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Here you can see how bad I can inform me in English! I just wanted to say that there is the possibility of a moment during uploads carry the chords after. ;):D

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I normally offer transcriptions to all my uploads but as it seems there are not many others who do. I have had a lot of thoughts regarding the subject on how to document ones music but i will address that in a separate thread.

I saddens me a little that so many musicians have a attitude like "I don't need that" or "If you cant hear it its not worth it anyway" or, or, or. I think we all have heard most of them. I myself did suffer a very long time from not being able to read or write and i couldn't get rid of the feeling that this inadequacy not only hindered me from accessing the information i wanted, but it also hindered me in my development since everything took so much longer.

Having overcome this I will be happy to help everybody who wants to learn to transcribe. It's a learning process that demands some effort (like all learning) but it is certainly doable for everyone who wants. I managed to learn it by myself when i was almost 50

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Ich stimme Nilton voll zu. Ein wichtiges musikalisches Ziel im Leben besteht darin, auch zu wissen, was man tut.

Ein gutes Leadsheet sollte taktgenau sein.

Im Profil lassen sich PMs versenden mit Fragen oder Wünschen. Viele Musiker sind sehr freundlich und unterstützend. Fragen kostet nichts.
:)

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Edited by Neronick on May 20 2016 22:04

I really would appreciate if we could stick to english here,
The mix up with german is quite likely to annoy our international readers.
If you feel there is a need, i can open a german board for posts in german which can be easily ignored by anyone who cant read german.

I'll comment on the chords issue in detail in a few days, still touring...

Reading what you've written Nilton:
"I saddens me a little that so many musicians have a attitude like "I don't need that" or "If you cant hear it its not worth it anyway" or, or, or. I think we all have heard most of them."

It's an evidence that on a sharing process we need a common language.
I've worked many years back around studio collaborations and when a guy brings you a sax score it can be useful to have basis knowledges.

Many legendary jazz guitar players can't read a music score or a single note. This is not a question of "attitude". And they have to pay people to transcript their music.
(Most of music scores you can buy for guitar players are false)

The fact here is not to judge people on what they use to do or think but I guess is what could be useful here at Wiki.
I didn't meant to say it's not useful for others, but just for me. And I'd be glad to bring what I can, now that I'm aware around how important it could be for some of our mates.

I still can read. But writing is a pain in the a..

It's a good place here to learn, improve and share. I follow you on this.
I've read one your posts talking about harmony. Awesome post.
I guess mixing every loopers willing with skilled mates like you is a great news.

And I thank you for that. But don't judge people.

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There is no judgement intended, believe me. But the situation today is a lot different from when those players you mention learned to play. They more often than not didn't have access to reference and training and were thought in what is called an oral tradition, something which applies for about 97% of the worlds music (meaning 3% is notated). And i am absolutely convinced that if they had been given the opportunity to learn to read (and write) at the same time they learned to play most of them would have been excellent readers.

I do certainly believe that there are very few jazz musicians from younger generations that are not able to both read and write very well. Partly because of different means of education but most important that there is a lot more information accessible.

And yes, limiting yourself in some aspects does force development in other directions. But that does not mean that it is an optimal to development.

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I totally agree with you Nilton. And I thank you for your words.
Your analysis is purely logic and allows us to take a step back on that question.
I've read your new thread about writing and reading and you explain it clearly bringing the level up.
The way the manuals are done is just boring. You've mentioned it on your post. My daughter just finished a 15 years classical learning at the French national academy... Man, students must be motivated...

What could lead a beginner here to learn is when he or she is stuck around creating a chords progression. Basic harmony knowledges offer all the ways to develop the job.

Once that experienced your words and thoughts make immediatly sense to every musician even non readers.

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