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Another rally in the wall ?

Another rally in the wall ?

posted on #1
OliVBee Supporter
Posts: 760
Joined: Jan 7, 2013
Hey wikibunch !

I hope you guys survived the X-Mas orgies and that everybody enjoyed the fun whatever it was you were into ;)

I was just back yesterday and had to check on the loops (i bet you're no different after being gone a few days) ... one of my first goal was to check on the end-of-the-year-rally and where would be that progression bar ... first thing i saw was it's gone ! replaced by a banner with a support wikiloops with a donation button ...

ok i had to ask Dick what about the rally and stuff ... luckily he was around and we could have a chat for a while !

18.15% ... this is where the rally is stuck at ! -ôÔ- man it's been X-Mas for many but obviously not for wikiloops :(

Is this OK if the rally ends this low (and even lower than last year if i remember ...) ?? NOOOOOO it is NOT OK !!

I know many of you guys (if not every one of you who will read this) already chipped in and contributed ... but let's face it : we all have to do better than that if we want our lovely toy up and running !!

For those who didn't donate yet i'm urging you to do so because at this rate wikiloops might not stay online for too long ! And for those who gave already like me well, i'll grab this opportunity to wish wikiloops a wonderful and happy new year in advance and i'll chip in some more !

posted on #2
Wade Supporter
Posts: 496
Joined: Nov 25, 2013
Thanks OliVBee for putting that reminder out there. Hopefully there are some (like me) who run their charitable contributions on a schedule that doesn't necessarily fit in with when the supporter drives might happen, but will be generous when that time comes up. For me that time is getting close, usually just after New Year. My thinking is that I'm always paying at the beginning of the year for the rest of the year's fun to come.

Doesn't matter how we rationalize as long as the funds arrive and we keep the site healthy.

13.75% sucks! If that doesn't improve substantially hopefully there will be some discussion. Would not be good if one day we try to log in and wikiloops just isn't there.
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posted on #3
OliVBee Supporter
Posts: 760
Joined: Jan 7, 2013
oups make it 18.15% instead of 13.75 ... my bad it's corrected in my initial post ;)
that's a tiny bit better but still not enough !!!
posted on #4
Posts: 990
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Thank You OliVBee for putting that reminder up. I to am on a strict budget and plan to add more as soon as I can add it to my budget. I would not want to see the wikiloops to go away. As I live on a fixed income and the only pleasure I have is playing on the wiki and some live gigs when I can. For the members that are out there and are still unsure about contributing if everyone was to just give $5.00 x 45241 members this site would have $ 226,205.00 a number this site could use for some time to come. Just a thought. As it is now like anything else only a few will step up and help out and this is sad. So like Wade I to will add when I am able. Long live the wikiloops and everyone pitch in and help keep it going
posted on #5
Posts: 282
Joined: Aug 19, 2013
If you like put some blame on me. I have the status of a non supportive member... But I can say honestly that I have tried to promote Wikiloops to other people.
I would have no problem to pay a monthly fee to be a member of an exclusive club.
I can imagine to live in a world where music is no longer for free.

Maybe Wikiloops will shut down in a few years because it runs out of money. Or it changes to an iceberg concept. Only 3 songs of a member are for free to the world. You can select these songs in your cloud. You can even invite listeners with a link to more "public" songs.
You will get a collection of 6000 excellant tracks to inform the world.
The big rest could be a closed shop forpaying members only. I never got a thumb or a remix from a not paying member. Of course I got thousends of unknown and silent listeners. I don't care about them. Are they for real?
I would appreciate the idea they neededto pay to use my personal music cloud.
I know the term "for free" is a holy cow from the early days of online robbery.
I want to live in a world where nothing is for free. Nothing, really nothing. It would be a better world!
No joke.
posted on #6
OliVBee Supporter
Posts: 760
Joined: Jan 7, 2013
And i really wouldn't mind you living alone in your nothing-is-free kind of Nero-world ... man you're really something else !

What I can't figure out is why on Earth you wouldn't start your own paying mojo with wikiloops ??? you're certainly using wikiloops for a number of years now ... doesn't make any sense to me !!

on the music side you're complaining that your tracks are being heard but only members are giving you thumbs ... well let me tell you : get used to it because that's exactly what everybody else gets ! improve your music skills would be my best advice !
No joke either
posted on #7
TeeGee Supporter
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sep 27, 2014
I can really understand that some people have money problems, I really do. I did not have many periods in my life where I did not have to think about how to reduce the credit card bill, or spending a lot of time online trying to get the best deal for whatever. It's ok and I don't complain about it, and I am still having a very good western life.

Also, I do use a few websites where they ask for contributions, as every site costs money. And on those sites where I spend a lot of time, or use a lot, I try to pay a little, as much as I can. Wikipedia is one, I probably use it every day, and Wikiloops. So for me the whole "free not free club" nonsense that Neronick is spouting, sorry, that seems just like a cheap excuse to me. If you have the money, then do the DECENT thing. Who cares what everybody else is doing, enjoy the site, contribute!

Neronick, you asked me a while ago why I write certain things about you: Well, here we are again - prime example.
posted on #8
adu Supporter
Posts: 257
Joined: Feb 1, 2014
It is, of course, clear to everyone whether he supports wikiloops financially. Whether only a small contribution or a larger is nevertheless here at all. It is my first concern here, like so many others, that Dick can not bear these costs alone, he is already doing very much anyway.

But I hear or read now already the whine, when the message comes, wikiloops is paid or must be even completely closed! I think it would be a pity if it were so. Of course you have to ask yourself whether this place is filled with life as it has been up to now? Is it still so much fun? Is not the diversity and the great ideas missing then?

I find everyone who has the opportunity to give something there should be voluntary and very many will have the opportunity. Then we can at least make it possible for those who really are not really financially able to participate in this! Makes a lot more fun when a lot of people can show their creativity and talent.

(Sorry for the Google translation, if there is misunderstandings please ask first and do not hit directly!)

And now I wish you all a healthy, happy, creative and musical year 2017!

Your adu :)
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posted on #9
Baer Supporter
Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 31, 2010
Hello wikiloops :)
Thanks to Mr.Bee up there for starting this thread...
I guess, since most of the people using the forum are supporters, and since Dick decided not to bug people who already do support, it might be a good idea to bring the "funding status bar" here, so all who may not have seen it can check where we are at two days before 2016 runs out.
Here it is:

I would not want to live in Neronicks world, and things like wikiloops would never happen there.
To accuse anyone who has worked on some free online project to be a "robber" isn't only lacking any signs of respect towards wikiloops, it is wronging the whole open source movement in one sentence. That is so absurd, it is almost funny again.

Let me end with this thought:
I cannot pay all that is needed to fund wikiloops in 2017, and I'll have respect for any step that might be necessary to make up for the (still) missing support.
It is and was right to follow the "open access" policy on wikiloops IMO,
and in the worst case I'd be one saying "the crowd was not ready to create its own independent network",
while "wikiloops was not worth having and following wrong concepts" is what people like Neronick may believe,
I just felt like making sure people who see it my way are not under-represented here :)
posted on #10
Posts: 990
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Let me start with I just don't understand the whole complaining about supporting the wikiloops. in my world it is said if you don't have anything positive to say don't say anything at all. The way I see it here is the stats.
Neronick stats
public Uploads: 110
Fans: (received thumbs)1225
given thumbs: 3079
written Comments: 2399
Forum posts: 176
received Remixes: 204
total plays:189363

So as you can see you do use the wikiloops and the only thing the supporters are trying to get across here is it is a site that depends on donations. Not a charge for using the site a freewill donation. If you don't have a problem being charged for this service why not donate. Makes no sense pay or don't pay others will to keep the site going.Just my opinion.

posted on #11
bhunt1 Supporter
Posts: 77
Joined: Mar 22, 2014
Just saw this post and decided to contribute again. There is no way this site keeps going unless we users contribute. I know some may not have the means to contribute but I feel anything you can contribute would be most welcome and appropriate. This is a special place, and it can't keep going unless we users contribute. Thanks to Dick and the team for all the work and heart and soul they put into this special place. Long live Wikiloops!
posted on #12
Posts: 282
Joined: Aug 19, 2013
It is really easy and cheap for me to get the status "supporter" back again. I just need to handle a piece of paper to the lady in the banc.
For sure this little transaction won't solve any financial problems on the long run.
I don't mind if you donate twice or 10 times. Why not? May be people donate easier if they forced to pay a monthly fee.
Just take the sum of costs and devide it by users. Then take the donations as a surplus.
Sometimes you can open a door but crawl through the window.
A company or a community can grow or it can downsize to a stable financial foundation.

With a little good will you can easily see if you look at my personal stats that I have a valid intrest not to harm Wikiloops. I just don't brake for holy cows. Can't understand why 5000 tracks for free aren't enough. Pay 2€ for the next 90000.
And donate, TOO!
Best wishes
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posted on #13
Posts: 83
Joined: May 11, 2014
This discussion reminds me to Captain Beefheart (R.I.P.). This candy is for you, Nick:
Enjoy and consider:

Happy New Year!
Dein Willy
posted on #14
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2839
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
Before this thread vanishes in the vast and partially dangerous archives of the wikiloops forum,
let me add a quick footnote on january 4th of 2017,
whichs form admittedly has been influenced by the slightly absurd spirit of some of the previous posts.

As the future reader will have observed, wikiloops is still around at the time of reading, so the matter initially adressed here by OliVBee may seem to have been solved (thru Captain Beefheart?) somehow.

At the time of writing this footnote, the "funding campaign for 2017" had reached 20.82% of the targeted funding-goal,
and while this thread offers a nice insight in the partially contradicting views of the wikiloops members back in 2016, the question of who would pay the remaining needed $ 32.000 to survive 2017 still remained.

As things stand today, we will be out of budget by the 16th of march (that's more or less equvalent to 20% of 2017), and I must admit I somehow had to think of the musicians on the Titanic (who reportedly kept playing on unimpressed) when looking at the average 'loopers concern about this fact.

Now, the future reader may be mislead to think "they genuinely didn't care back then!", but the truth probably was more like "They all felt quite sure the management would solve that somehow".

Since the wikiloops management consisted of one single person (me) back then, it was comparably easy to guess who would get the job of solving the problem, ideally prior to March 16th.

If you'd like to follow up what happens next,
check the developers blog every now and then,
I will report about the process there.
I just can't end this quite absurd thread without saying
thank you to all who are and have been backing up wikiloops,
and you should know I'll be offering ways to participate and
collaborate on re-shaping the future of this project.
If you are interested in such matters, that is :)
posted on #15
Wade Supporter
Posts: 496
Joined: Nov 25, 2013
I'm quite concerned with the funding shortfall. Mid March is not that far away. Is it time to discuss/consider alternatives? Plan B?

As said in the developer's blog I don't think any of the current supporters would mind knowing what the situations is, and that they may need to help (beyond their current level of donation). That sort of ignorance is not bliss. It's a pretty sure presumption that supporters value the continuation of this site more than most.
posted on #16
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 3, 2015
I pay up quite happy to support this great place,but I cant get my head around the fact that we have 45375 members, but only a few hundred who contribute,and yes I know there are many who cant afford to pay.Could we not have a system where members are given say 3 months free membership with limited access to all the site features,then they decide whether to contribute to gain access to the full site features.I love this place and would be gutted if it goes down.
this site is a gold-mine of thousands of high quality backing tapes,which to my way of thinking is crazy to give them away,when the site badly needs money.I think a lot of people dont want to join in the recording here they just pop in for the free backing tracks,so i'm sure if there was a small charge to be able to download tracks this would help.Sorry if I sound cynical,not meant to.
posted on #17
Posts: 284
Joined: Apr 8, 2014
...never mind "backing tapes" (showing your age there pete) its a goldmine of MUSIC....full stop! but maybe your onto something if your non contributing then pay to download..if your a bona fide contributing member then its free coins you've got a vested interest in keeping the loops running and don't mind contributing.
posted on #18
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2839
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
Hey Wade & Pete,
like I said, I believe we might be well-advised to discontinue this thread here, since it will most likely keep going off topic and bring more confusion than benefit.
To value your inputs never the less, let me just say that:
@Wade: It is indeed concerning, and since "give up because there's not enough support" is NOT the desirable option, we better move to something else.
I do understand your concern and your friendly advice to ask the same people who donated before to donate more, but looking at who supported in the past four weeks, I am totally confident that 99% of the group you feel I may have missed have seen, heard, and in many cases already answered that call.

I believe the amount of people who have entirely missed what is going on will be rather small, seeing that the whole page is full of donation calls, my blog has been talking about it for a long time and Mr.Bee picked up those who seem to have missed all that right here.
Neronick seems to have noticed, too.
If I saw any chance to solve the issue by asking the current supporters to give another small amount and we'd be done, I probably would not hesitate to ask.
Since I'd need to ask for amounts around 100$ from each current supporter (including a lot of people who felt like giving $5, which is really nice) to make ends meet, we have to face that it's not going to happen.
If we made a realistic split and focused on folks who are well off enough to have sent more than 45$ in their initial donation, then the "split per head" amount would be a lot higher. I don't see that will work, and it would feel somewhat wrong to me, too.

@pete: I totally understand the feeling of "how can this be happening", but I'm not going down that path of thought too much - it just doesn't help to focus on that. Instead, I'm trying to come up with solutions, and I'll present them here in the forum once they have shaped up.
I believe I have made it quite clear that I have no interest in playing the "the lights will go out on wikiloops"-game, and (to stick to the Titanic comparison), the worst case scenario I can imagine would be to provide a safety vessel to the people who have supported the project. In clear words, I just told you that wikiloops will (even in the very worst case) stay online for people who support, the 80% missing budget are not related to going offline, but to keeping the doors open for more people.
I owe staying online to you who supported the idea, and to myself for having invested five years of my life into wikiloops. But a wikiloops limited to 350+X members would not be the same, right?

I know it may be difficult to understand what exactly is at stake here (is it the "free"? is it the "unlimited"?), and I promise to keep you updated as soon as I have come up with a sketch worth presenting.
There is usualy little good in rushed decisions, so lets think carefully first and keep some good faith that it will work out in a good way. I believe it will.
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posted on #19
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 3, 2015
Many thanks Dick for your quick reply,;)Happy new year buddy
posted on #20
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2839
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
while I was writing my last post, the donation bar wandered to 26%, so we're miraculously backed until April 5th by now.
Thanks to those involved <3
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