My biggest mistake on this site
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You know how it goes. You listen to a loop and you're like "wow, that's really cool, I've got a bassline in my head that I think would really go well with this..."
My biggest mistake is that I don't just go ahead and record my addition. No, I listen to the other remixes, and the basslines in them are SO MUCH COOLER than anything I could come up with. It's really inspiring to listen to other peoples' interpretations. But it's really discouraging when I realise that I can't contribute something at the same level. :(
Does anyone else experience this? How do you cope with it?
Max
My biggest mistake is that I don't just go ahead and record my addition. No, I listen to the other remixes, and the basslines in them are SO MUCH COOLER than anything I could come up with. It's really inspiring to listen to other peoples' interpretations. But it's really discouraging when I realise that I can't contribute something at the same level. :(
Does anyone else experience this? How do you cope with it?
Max
I don't listen to any tracks that include drums until after I've played and recorded my interpretation of what the percussion should sound like. I start at the first track and work my way down the progression and stop before any drum adds. There are several very good drummers on this site that if I tried to compare myself to everyone else I would never add anything that is truly my own. And I normally try to add to tracks that other drummers have not recorded yet. There are so many tracks on this site it's always easy to find something to work on.
Bill
Edited by 2underpar on 07-01-2017 22:42
Bill
Edited by 2underpar on 07-01-2017 22:42
MemberPosts: 75
Joined: 02.01.17
Would you be able to look at the lyrics for Rhythm Of The Storm and maybe compose some drums for it? I just have this vision of a heavy drum background to the words. Please if you would be so kind as to at least take a look I would be very grateful. Thank you. x
Edited by Jane on 08-01-2017 00:29
Edited by Jane on 08-01-2017 00:29
Jane Shields
Ok, I will.
maxxxie wrote:
Does anyone else experience this? How do you cope with it?
Max
Does anyone else experience this? How do you cope with it?
Max
Of course! I've learned to not listen to other adds until after I make my contribution.
..i never listen to anyone else!
...no, seriously, the main thing i've gotten from the loops is that no matter how crap i am, i can't really tread too badly on anyone else toes. all they'll do is avoid my branch of the tree.
i've never worried how many people there are in an audience, never had "stage fright" or been shy in front of an audience....but put one feller on stage with me that i respect as a player, and i clam up, and feel unworthy. the loops (although more wikifest) has taught me is that even my lowly input is worthwhile even if only to me as a player trying to get comfy with other players. ....and you know what the biggest surprise is? most of them guys actually like playing with me. probably cos i make them sound even better. :)
so maxxxie don't get despondent...its not a competition.
...no, seriously, the main thing i've gotten from the loops is that no matter how crap i am, i can't really tread too badly on anyone else toes. all they'll do is avoid my branch of the tree.
i've never worried how many people there are in an audience, never had "stage fright" or been shy in front of an audience....but put one feller on stage with me that i respect as a player, and i clam up, and feel unworthy. the loops (although more wikifest) has taught me is that even my lowly input is worthwhile even if only to me as a player trying to get comfy with other players. ....and you know what the biggest surprise is? most of them guys actually like playing with me. probably cos i make them sound even better. :)
so maxxxie don't get despondent...its not a competition.
The really good thing about this site is that we can just download and practice the pieces that we like. There is certainly no competition in that. If posting I've always found "the community" very generous in its comments and supportive of players still learning.
With more player/members it can be difficult (even for very fine musicians) to get noticed as there are so many tracks being posted. I don't think the community has changed its views, yet there just isn't time for every new player to be heard. Circles tend to be formed with players who listen to each other and add to each other’s tracks. I don't think it's intentional exclusion, but just a reality of so many tracks and many of us with limited time.
The opportunity of playing on any number of fine tracks is there for everybody. Whether or not your add will attract comments or other players will hopefully not discourage as the exercise is to be in there and be creative.
Even for very talented players it can take decades for them to develop their own unique voice such that others can know who is playing without being given the name. Developing yourself as a musician takes a lot of time and dedication, and (for most of us) doesn't lead to fame, stardom, or even making a living. Music is a passion. Being comfortable with yourself at whatever stage you’re at in your development is most important.
In my opinion it's also important to not be overwhelmed by the prowess of other players such that you just continually copy what they have done. Make your instrument your voice. Some may think they need to limit their listening and influences. I don't think that's necessary, but it depends on the individual and where they are at in their development. Once you are competent as a player (you can play what you can her in your head/hum/sing), then that inner voice is what comes into play...it's you and it's unique.
What many younger players often admire is technique...which is certainly good to have, but technique with nothing to say is (IMHO) useless. The greatest players make music sound easy and often play very simply. Having your own point of view, being comfortable with yourself and expressing whatever you can in the moment is always the best you.
Edited by Wade on 08-01-2017 04:08
With more player/members it can be difficult (even for very fine musicians) to get noticed as there are so many tracks being posted. I don't think the community has changed its views, yet there just isn't time for every new player to be heard. Circles tend to be formed with players who listen to each other and add to each other’s tracks. I don't think it's intentional exclusion, but just a reality of so many tracks and many of us with limited time.
The opportunity of playing on any number of fine tracks is there for everybody. Whether or not your add will attract comments or other players will hopefully not discourage as the exercise is to be in there and be creative.
Even for very talented players it can take decades for them to develop their own unique voice such that others can know who is playing without being given the name. Developing yourself as a musician takes a lot of time and dedication, and (for most of us) doesn't lead to fame, stardom, or even making a living. Music is a passion. Being comfortable with yourself at whatever stage you’re at in your development is most important.
In my opinion it's also important to not be overwhelmed by the prowess of other players such that you just continually copy what they have done. Make your instrument your voice. Some may think they need to limit their listening and influences. I don't think that's necessary, but it depends on the individual and where they are at in their development. Once you are competent as a player (you can play what you can her in your head/hum/sing), then that inner voice is what comes into play...it's you and it's unique.
What many younger players often admire is technique...which is certainly good to have, but technique with nothing to say is (IMHO) useless. The greatest players make music sound easy and often play very simply. Having your own point of view, being comfortable with yourself and expressing whatever you can in the moment is always the best you.
Edited by Wade on 08-01-2017 04:08
Thank you everyone, for your replies. I usually exclude the bass in the search filter, but there are times I see a remix with bass on it and think, hmm, I'll listen to that. And it's always a path to low self-esteem.
You're right about developing your own voice. I'm not yet at that level. I enjoy coming up with basslines, but it can be daunting, too. This place has set the bar high! If there's good news, though, it's that for every song, there's countless interpretations of what can be added to it. And there's no right or wrong. I just need to remind myself of that!
Max
You're right about developing your own voice. I'm not yet at that level. I enjoy coming up with basslines, but it can be daunting, too. This place has set the bar high! If there's good news, though, it's that for every song, there's countless interpretations of what can be added to it. And there's no right or wrong. I just need to remind myself of that!
Max
MemberPosts: 10
Joined: 06.04.16
Maxxie :)
I can relate to your post... I'll find a track with a fantastic vocalist and think, "fu**, I'm not gonna be as good as this or as creative and my lyrics suck and my range is too limited..." and so on and so forth. Then, I listen again without the intention to add (because i suck, remember?) and start thinking, "wow, what a beautiful creation... cool lyrics too... wikiloops is so cool!" and at that point, I'm ready to jump in, knowing that sharing (not comparing) is caring...
This process isn't instant but the sooner i can turn my fear-thinking into positive thinking, the sooner I can sing again! It may be a few minutes or it may be a few months... We're all unique (musically and otherwise) and have our individual gifts to offer so the whole comparing thing is obsolete... This is something I struggle with in most areas of my life so thank you for being courageous enough to open this conversation.
Moonchild
I can relate to your post... I'll find a track with a fantastic vocalist and think, "fu**, I'm not gonna be as good as this or as creative and my lyrics suck and my range is too limited..." and so on and so forth. Then, I listen again without the intention to add (because i suck, remember?) and start thinking, "wow, what a beautiful creation... cool lyrics too... wikiloops is so cool!" and at that point, I'm ready to jump in, knowing that sharing (not comparing) is caring...
This process isn't instant but the sooner i can turn my fear-thinking into positive thinking, the sooner I can sing again! It may be a few minutes or it may be a few months... We're all unique (musically and otherwise) and have our individual gifts to offer so the whole comparing thing is obsolete... This is something I struggle with in most areas of my life so thank you for being courageous enough to open this conversation.
Moonchild
Love and blessings to you on your path!
I want to encourage you. You can find hundreds of "bass-lacking" tracks of 100 different musicians.
Pick one where your skills help the song. Compare the result with your TASTE.
Don't worry about listeners or thumbs. Thumbs say more about your audience than about your music.
On the long run musicians tend to play at the same level. A very good example is the video of the Rolling Stone's concert at Havanna, Cuba.
:)
Pick one where your skills help the song. Compare the result with your TASTE.
Don't worry about listeners or thumbs. Thumbs say more about your audience than about your music.
On the long run musicians tend to play at the same level. A very good example is the video of the Rolling Stone's concert at Havanna, Cuba.
:)
Was born in an analog world.
The best advice - "don't listen to other bass players" has already been given. [Non-bassists should, of course, listen to as many bass tracks as possible - we like to be appreciated!]
Some practical tips...
1) If you find a track you like and can figure out which musician is catching your ear, go to their profile page and look through their tracks listing. You can tell from the icons next to the track which ones don't have bass on them. (Often there are remixes that do but you can avoid those.)
2) Treat the recording process as an opportunity to learn. Getting to an upload is important because it forces you to finish your development on a piece - it means you really do have to learn that tricky middle 8 rather than faking your way through it.
3) _After_ you've uploaded is a good time to go and listen to another bass track. Ask yourself which parts of it you like but also what parts of yours do you prefer? There's nothing wrong with having a different voice and one way to work on it is to focus on the bits that you play that others wouldn't :)
4) Have fun! Nobody is going to shout at or mock you here. I've seen nothing but encouraging words on every track I've visited. :)
Edited by GrooveEnth on 08-01-2017 15:26
Some practical tips...
1) If you find a track you like and can figure out which musician is catching your ear, go to their profile page and look through their tracks listing. You can tell from the icons next to the track which ones don't have bass on them. (Often there are remixes that do but you can avoid those.)
2) Treat the recording process as an opportunity to learn. Getting to an upload is important because it forces you to finish your development on a piece - it means you really do have to learn that tricky middle 8 rather than faking your way through it.
3) _After_ you've uploaded is a good time to go and listen to another bass track. Ask yourself which parts of it you like but also what parts of yours do you prefer? There's nothing wrong with having a different voice and one way to work on it is to focus on the bits that you play that others wouldn't :)
4) Have fun! Nobody is going to shout at or mock you here. I've seen nothing but encouraging words on every track I've visited. :)
Edited by GrooveEnth on 08-01-2017 15:26
I initially wanted to write: "The best advice is don't listen to any advice, just do what you FEEL is right for YOU" - but that in itself would be an advice, and just as I tried to get my head around this paradox my head exploooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :O
Seriously, if it intimidates you or affects you in any way - don't do it then. I personally try to download a backing track, and will only listen to similar tracks after I am finished for several reasons. I also never try to copy licks or phrases of anybody, it just happens naturally.
But most important, and I've said it before: for me, Music (and Wikiloops) is about having fun. So anything that takes away your enjoyment, avoid it :D
And don't worry, nobody is going to put you down if you play a bad note or two or worse - be fearless and free here - it's the ideal place to grow as a musician.
Seriously, if it intimidates you or affects you in any way - don't do it then. I personally try to download a backing track, and will only listen to similar tracks after I am finished for several reasons. I also never try to copy licks or phrases of anybody, it just happens naturally.
But most important, and I've said it before: for me, Music (and Wikiloops) is about having fun. So anything that takes away your enjoyment, avoid it :D
And don't worry, nobody is going to put you down if you play a bad note or two or worse - be fearless and free here - it's the ideal place to grow as a musician.
MemberPosts: 990
Joined: 16.10.11
Maxxie,
I do the same thing as a bass player. As a musicians side of it every bass line or any other instrument is a new twist to a track. So I go ahead and add my take on the song. To me one is no better than the other it's just our own taste in music. Sure some sound better and maybe fit the song but it is the ones that is done in your way that could be the million seller.
So just add your take cause someone out there will enjoy it.
I do the same thing as a bass player. As a musicians side of it every bass line or any other instrument is a new twist to a track. So I go ahead and add my take on the song. To me one is no better than the other it's just our own taste in music. Sure some sound better and maybe fit the song but it is the ones that is done in your way that could be the million seller.
So just add your take cause someone out there will enjoy it.
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 05.12.16
I haven't been on this site long .The concept of the site is a good . But I have to spit it into 2 categories,There are players who are just on the site to jam and thats fine nothing wrong with that and players on this site who want to develop the song and that is very different to just jamming especially when theres no vocalist and lyric writer there from the start.
Being a vocalist and lyricist I have have found it a bit difficult to find material on wikiloops that I can fit lyrics too because the lyrics where the last thing the players thought of .Like a guitar ,bass ,drums player etc Vocals are an instrument and theres a structure to it. Drums, Bass Rhythm Vocals than everything else follows that.So as a bass player I think you have a hard job to try and fit a bass line line in after there are many other instruments already on there because there all following the original bass line on there and all you could do is copy it other wise it will not sound right.
So like me I think going to the first season template that has bass and drums separated or do some tracks to some drum tracks and put them on as a template.
Being a vocalist and lyricist I have have found it a bit difficult to find material on wikiloops that I can fit lyrics too because the lyrics where the last thing the players thought of .Like a guitar ,bass ,drums player etc Vocals are an instrument and theres a structure to it. Drums, Bass Rhythm Vocals than everything else follows that.So as a bass player I think you have a hard job to try and fit a bass line line in after there are many other instruments already on there because there all following the original bass line on there and all you could do is copy it other wise it will not sound right.
So like me I think going to the first season template that has bass and drums separated or do some tracks to some drum tracks and put them on as a template.
Hi Murphy - I think you raise a very good point that one of the differences between Wikiloops and playing in most bands is that there's no real opportunity to go back and change your part according to what someone else has added. I know that I've always tended to drive my bass line from the vocal part and a line that sounded great with against drums and guitar just might not fit once a cool keyboard part has been added. On the other hand, the layered approach here where parts an be put down in unusual orders does make for some very interesting music and there plenty of examples where either the vocals have been put down early to allow other instruments to fit around them or else a vocal line has been found that manages to squeeze into the few remaining gaps! I believe there is a 'private band' feature that allows you to collaborate more interactively with other musicians but I haven't used it so don't know whether you might find it a better approach.
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 05.12.16
I know this is getting away from the original focus of this thread but i have to bring it up it maybe upset some folks but when i first got on this site i was blown away by the volume of tracks some wikiloppers are uploading especially in the blues area.
Then I thought hey Ive heard this before so i went through my vast collection of jam tracks downloaded from different sites and have pegged many tracks used on wikiloops.
Thats fine backing tracks are for backing thats what there for. But Please don't claim you played the instruments on the backing track.
Sorry I had to say it:W ps groove this not aimed at u its just a general coment
Edited by murphyb on 09-01-2017 04:07
Then I thought hey Ive heard this before so i went through my vast collection of jam tracks downloaded from different sites and have pegged many tracks used on wikiloops.
Thats fine backing tracks are for backing thats what there for. But Please don't claim you played the instruments on the backing track.
Sorry I had to say it:W ps groove this not aimed at u its just a general coment
Edited by murphyb on 09-01-2017 04:07
I have now read everything, but am not sure if I have understood everything.
The question anyone has to ask himself, what do I want?
Do I want to be perfect with my music and put the big start for a career here? Or, I just want to have fun?
I absolutely agree with Mr. Wade. Be yourself and enjoy what you do.
I can only talk about myself. When I came here, I could do almost nothing, but I did not care and I did my thing. You will be better, believe me.
Of course, I've admired many here for their abilities. Listen to the people you like and learn a lot. That I will not become a world star is something I am aware of. But I love to share my music with my possibilities, and sometimes some great things come out, sometimes not at all! Do not make so many thoughts, and do not doubt the inspiration that others have given you! Believe in you and let us all participate in it. This is for me the wikiloops thought.
Let it flow and have fun!
All the best for you, adu ;)
The question anyone has to ask himself, what do I want?
Do I want to be perfect with my music and put the big start for a career here? Or, I just want to have fun?
I absolutely agree with Mr. Wade. Be yourself and enjoy what you do.
I can only talk about myself. When I came here, I could do almost nothing, but I did not care and I did my thing. You will be better, believe me.
Of course, I've admired many here for their abilities. Listen to the people you like and learn a lot. That I will not become a world star is something I am aware of. But I love to share my music with my possibilities, and sometimes some great things come out, sometimes not at all! Do not make so many thoughts, and do not doubt the inspiration that others have given you! Believe in you and let us all participate in it. This is for me the wikiloops thought.
Let it flow and have fun!
All the best for you, adu ;)
Rockin´ in a free world !
Lots of great thoughts here...to Maxxxie I would say that music is, at it's core, about expression and not competition. It is "fun" and a driving force sometimes to be competitive as in any endeavor, but the core is about expressing yourself to the listener as best you can in that moment :)
Murphyb brought up a good point that I wish more folks would do here on the loops...and that is communicate ideas privately. I believe Wade brought up how some folks may have their "Circles" that they tend to work in, but I think that to Murphy's initial point...send someone an email if you found something you like but that just doesn't "Fit" with the original posting or lyrical idea you may have. I have worked with Olive in this manner...AnneCozean, Shi and others as well this way. I have found that most here are VERY receptive to collaborating and it arguably makes the music that much better that comes from it.
In essence...I have found that players on the WL who are much better than I will ever be have always been supportive and helpful to me. Especially when I add to something outside of my comfort zone. Clams, muffed notes, overbends, out of tune...you name it (I have done them all) and I have found the community here just as supportive and constructive on those moments as they are on the few times that I might have "nailed it"!
Get your jam on...it's all in good fun and about putting YOUR stamp on that moment in time :)
Dan
Murphyb brought up a good point that I wish more folks would do here on the loops...and that is communicate ideas privately. I believe Wade brought up how some folks may have their "Circles" that they tend to work in, but I think that to Murphy's initial point...send someone an email if you found something you like but that just doesn't "Fit" with the original posting or lyrical idea you may have. I have worked with Olive in this manner...AnneCozean, Shi and others as well this way. I have found that most here are VERY receptive to collaborating and it arguably makes the music that much better that comes from it.
In essence...I have found that players on the WL who are much better than I will ever be have always been supportive and helpful to me. Especially when I add to something outside of my comfort zone. Clams, muffed notes, overbends, out of tune...you name it (I have done them all) and I have found the community here just as supportive and constructive on those moments as they are on the few times that I might have "nailed it"!
Get your jam on...it's all in good fun and about putting YOUR stamp on that moment in time :)
Dan
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 05.12.16
Danalyze45 has some good advice here what else would be could to see on wiki loops is singers working together on the same track get some real harmonies going .
I know the vision of the creators of wikiloops is for a none commercial platform and thats how it should be, but there are are some great tracks on this site and to help fund wikiloops ongoing costs and future development of the site maybe they could look at a yearly CD release of the best of wikiloops. and post it on I tunes etc.
It helps wikiloops and gives the musicians on the CD exposure.
Be interesting to here the feedback on this;)
I know the vision of the creators of wikiloops is for a none commercial platform and thats how it should be, but there are are some great tracks on this site and to help fund wikiloops ongoing costs and future development of the site maybe they could look at a yearly CD release of the best of wikiloops. and post it on I tunes etc.
It helps wikiloops and gives the musicians on the CD exposure.
Be interesting to here the feedback on this;)
>I have found that most here are VERY receptive to collaborating and it arguably makes the music that much better that comes from it.
Personally I'd love to collaborate with others but am very reticent about spamming players who might already be quite busy. I know there are 'private bands' but that still needs someone to organise them. I wonder if a cool feature would be a 'looking to collaborate' flag on your profile name that tells others that you're happy to receive invitations?
Personally I'd love to collaborate with others but am very reticent about spamming players who might already be quite busy. I know there are 'private bands' but that still needs someone to organise them. I wonder if a cool feature would be a 'looking to collaborate' flag on your profile name that tells others that you're happy to receive invitations?
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