what drummers want

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Just thought I would share in explaining from a drummer's point of view what we look for in a track and really it's not unlike what other instrument players look for. Obviously since drummers don't deal in chords, melodies, harmonies, triads and etc., what we do look for is even tempo from what ever instrument is being played.

There are a lot of good tracks uploaded on the wiki that never make it to the remix stage because of tempo problems. The musicians ability is sidelined by simple neglect of meter.Timing is Very important and the simplest thing to do first.

The musicians work is handicapped by such low-volume. By the time I increase the gain, all kinds of background noise comes in. Understanding that not everybody is on the same playing field with equipment but tracks do need to be adequately loud.

Sorry to step on toes here but there is so much distortion in the Musicians work that as a drummer I can't even distinguish chord changes.It's like taking the silverware drawer and dumping it on the kitchen floor all at once, it is impossible to keep up with.

For myself ,I love to get separate uploads of the musicians work.Very rarely do I upload just my contribution to the original track only. I did do this in the beginning but found it was just as easy to make two separate tracks. The thing I have to watch for is a phase problem with latency. I have a very simple MIDI audio interface that allows very low latency. Would suggest for software Reaper very easy and straightforward program for recording being very affordable. Really to honor the musicians original upload they should realize that providing separate tracks extends their efforts and gives more life to their creation. There is no one version of chocolate it can go in many directions. So should it be with their efforts. Personally I don't care what members on the wiki do with my uploads.Though I have yet for a bassoon to accompany me . Furthermore, I've always been appreciative for separate uploads and many members on the wiki have accommodated me. Thanks.

Some of these situations also apply to drummers as well.Always wanting to do above and beyond with the idea of my best efforts in mine.Use your time here as a learning experience where you can grow from others ability and the time they put in learning their craft . Don't be intimidated we all start as beginners. Be like David have a plan, work your plan and get ready to take down Goliath.Just some thoughts after about three years on the wiki.Greg

Edited by Drumshticks on 09-01-2017 20:01
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Just thought I would share in explaining from a drummer's point of view what we look for in a track and really it's not unlike what other instrument players look for. Obviously since drummers don't deal in chords, melodies, harmonies, triads and etc., what we do look for is even tempo from what ever instrument is being played.

There are a lot of good tracks uploaded on the wiki that never make it to the remix stage because of tempo problems. The musicians ability is sidelined by simple neglect of meter.Timing is Very important and the simplest thing to do first.

The musicians work is handicapped by such low-volume. By the time I increase the gain, all kinds of background noise comes in. Understanding that not everybody is on the same playing field with equipment but tracks do need to be adequately loud.

Sorry to step on toes here but there is so much distortion in the Musicians work that as a drummer I can't even distinguish chord changes.It's like taking the silverware drawer and dumping it on the kitchen floor all at once, it is impossible to keep up with.

For myself ,I love to get separate uploads of the musicians work.Very rarely do I upload just my contribution to the original track only. I did do this in the beginning but found it was just as easy to make two separate tracks. The thing I have to watch for is a phase problem with latency. I have a very simple MIDI audio interface that allows very low latency. Would suggest for software Reaper very easy and straightforward program for recording being very affordable. Really to honor the musicians original upload they should realize that providing separate tracks extends their efforts and gives more life to their creation. There is no one version of chocolate it can go in many directions. So should it be with their efforts. Personally I don't care what members on the wiki do with my uploads.Though I have yet for a bassoon to accompany me . Furthermore, I've always been appreciative for separate uploads and many members on the wiki have accommodated me. Thanks.

Some of these situations also apply to drummers as well.Always wanting to do above and beyond with the idea of my best efforts in mine.Use your time here as a learning experience where you can grow from others ability and the time they put in learning their craft . Don't be intimidated we all start as beginners. Be like David have a plan, work your plan and get ready to take down Goliath.Just some thoughts after about three years on the wiki.Greg
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Good Post. One thing I look for and really need as a time keeper is a count in. It makes all the difference, because I can set the timing to the count in and have a decent click track to work with. It also aids in mixing and recording. Please, all template tracks need a click... thanks. :W

rp3 (Raymond)
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rp3drums wrote:
Good Post. One thing I look for and really need as a time keeper is a count in. It makes all the difference, because I can set the timing to the count in and have a decent click track to work with. It also aids in mixing and recording. Please, all template tracks need a click... thanks. Rocker


Yes Sir! Click count from now on! smile.gif
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All very good and relevant points from Drumshticks and RP3.

For drummers adding here, it's a real 'chicken and egg' situation. Drummers should be the foundation of time all others play to and only when that happens does a track sound natural to me. Of course, that isn't possible on the Loops or we'd just be doing templates all the time! So when adding to someone else's template, the timebase needs to be consistent because, for me at least, I have to 'belong' to the track - i.e. sound like I was there all along - without sounding like I'm just tagging on. With a click to guide me, I have a reliable reference allowing me to concentrate on the feel of the track safe in the knowledge the music is staying in time. Without a consistent or steady timebase, this is almost impossible to do reliably (or without a lot of editing).

As mentioned above, it is the reason I often overlook tracks I consider to be excellent but are just too hard to play well to. If I can't do a track to a quality I'm happy with, I will just move on. I rely on being able to line up my click in Reaper to the contributor's track to help keep me in check. Without it, I'm constantly having to respond to timing variations in the performer's template which ends up sounding like I'm constantly playing catch-up with the track.

Distorted guitar and bass-only tracks are doubly hard without being able to set up a click. Not necessarily for recording quality reasons but because of the volumes I have my headphones set to (especially as I record acoustic drums) causes everything to get very muddy. This is where I need the click to guide me even more.

I realise this is a technical heartache for many players to perform to a metronome or program some guide drums for their recordings but doing so is far more likely to attract real drummers to your templates.
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I can't tell you how many times I tried and tried to add a drum part but eventually gave up due to a timing issue. There were times I was able to power through it by either speeding or slowing the tempo. And other times I would just pause and pick up a few beats later. Most often I try to look at it as a challenge. But when the challenge is consuming all my free time I move on.
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I agree and disagree with Martin. On the disagree part I feel very comfortable adding drums to a pre existing guitar or bass track. This is how I grew up playing in an original band, adding my drums to a guitar riff. So for me that part is cool. But, in total agreement, there has to be a count in and the timing has to be good. We record blind in the loops so there is no way to make eye contact with anyone during parts and changes, therefore timing becomes so important. One last thing for all the guitarist and songwriters out there, please upload your tracks w/o the fake drums. All of us drummers want to be able to join in on tracks, but if you do this we can't. And putting guitar only in the HD section is not a solution, because that stunts creativity of the track and confuses people who are adding on. Thanks for letting me rant. Didn't mean to go off topic.

rp3 (Raymond)
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Great posts on the drumming subject!! And yes everything you said about guitarists and their distorted tracks, changing tempo and all the rest of the vices - guilty as charged :| However, having had the pleasure of working closely with Raymond an a few tracks I learned how important that is. Every song we did, I learned a bit more. This is what I love about this place, we learn all the time AND have fun, too! Thank you drummer guys, without you there is no rock :W !!!
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