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The Art Of Songwriting

posted on #1
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Joined: 31.08.11
Open Form for Aspiring and Established Songwriters

I will try to monitor this thread as often as possible.

Please Be Patient for Requested Responses.

Thanks,
Frank
Edited by FRANK2654 on 08-06-2017 21:38
posted on #2
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Possible Topics and Discussions to Cover:

1) Where to Start when Writing a New Original Song

a) Possible Ways to Begin
* a Beat
* a Guitar/Piano Riff or Phrase that starts a Groove
* a Melody in you head
* a Word or Phrase that Evokes Emotion
* a Thought, Vision or Idea you would like to Share
* the List goes on....what else could be added to this list?

Please Join In and Share With Us Your Thoughts and Ideas. :)
Edited by FRANK2654 on 08-06-2017 21:10
posted on #3
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Tools Needed or at the Very Least Helpful.

A Songwriting Attache Case .. Lots of Loose Leaf Paper and Pencils/Pens and Lots of Whiteout.
A Highlighter Also is very Helpful.
I also use Computer NotePad Program but usually not till I reach a Certain Point on Paper.
You will Be Writing Many Song/Drafts at Least 5 Drafts until you Reach that Point where your Song Begins to take Shape/Structure.
You Will NEED :
****The Patience Of A Saint
**** The Organizational Skills Of a Corporate Mogul.

This Thread Is Now Officially Open For Comments and Discussion.

Please Keep Focused on The Subject Of Songwriting.

I Do Not Have All The Answers.
I Only Know What I Know...And What I Know Is Always Debatable.
Just Smile.....This Is Gonna Be Fun !
Frank2654
Edited by FRANK2654 on 08-06-2017 21:32
posted on #4
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Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
COMING UP !!!!
How To Create A Working, Editable SONG SHEET.
What Information Should Be On A SONG SHEET?
HERE'S MY LIST:
SONG SHEET
WHAT SHOULD BE ON A SONG SHEET?

#1 DATE SONG STARTED
#2 DATE SONG COMPLETED
#3 WORKING TITLE AND FINISHED TITLE
#4 THEME/STORY LINE OF SONG
#5 TEMPO/METER OF SONG
#6 INTRO-VERSE-CHORUS-INSTRUMENTAL BREAKS- ENDING (VARIABLE FOR EACH SONG)
#7 LENGTH OF SONG...USUALLY IN AREA OF 3 MINUTES FOR RADIO PLAY AND 5 MINUTES FOR EXTENDED VERSION FOR CD AND LIVE PLAY
#8 GUITAR RIFFS,PHRASING,LEAD,SOLO SIGNATURE PARTS IMPORTANT TO SONG
#9 YOUR NAME AND ANY COLLABORATORS
#10 LYRICS THAT FOLLOW A SONG STRUCTURE
#11 KEY OF SONG
#12 CHORDS AND CHORD PROGRESSIONS/CHANGES
#13 GENRE AND OR/ POSSIBLE CROSSOVER GENRES
#14 AGE GROUP YOU ARE TRYING TO REACH
#15 POSSIBLE INSTRUMENTS AND ARRANGEMENTS TO BE INCLUDED/ACCOMPANY IN SONG
#16 VOCALS- MALE AND/OR FEMALE- BACKUP VOCALS AND HARMONY
#17 RECORD PRODUCTION INFORMATION
#18 HOW AND WHERE TO PROMOTE YOU SONGS AS A SINGLE OR AS A ALBUM PACKAGE
#19 COPYRIGHT INFORMATION - SET UP OF COPYRIGHT
#20 COLLECTING ROYALTIES
#21 PLAYING SONG AT LIVE PERFORMANCES - KEEP RECORDS OF RESPONSES FROM
DIFFERENT VENUES - KEEP OPEN TO CHANGES FOR IMPROVEMENTS.
#22 MONTHLY STATUS OF SONGS PROGRESS
#23 WRITE DOWN THOUGHTS - OPINIONS - IDEAS ABOUT THIS SONG
#24 KNOW WHEN TO STOP AND REFRESH YOUR BODY AND MIND.
Edited by FRANK2654 on 30-08-2017 16:06
posted on #5
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Posts: 20
Joined: 18.10.14
:)
FRANK2654 wrote:
Tools Needed or at the Very Least Helpful.

A Songwriting Attache Case .. Lots of Loose Leaf Paper and Pencils/Pens and Lots of Whiteout.
A Highlighter Also is very Helpful.
I also use Computer NotePad Program but usually not till I reach a Certain Point on Paper.
You will Be Writing Many Song/Drafts at Least 5 Drafts until you Reach that Point where your Song Begins to take Shape/Structure.
You Will NEED :
****The Patience Of A Saint
**** The Organizational Skills Of a Corporate Mogul.

This Thread Is Now Officially Open For Comments and Discussion.

Please Keep Focused on The Subject Of Songwriting.

I Do Not Have All The Answers.
I Only Know What I Know...And What I Know Is Always Debatable.
Just Smile.....This Is Gonna Be Fun !
Frank2654

I sure do have lots of scrap paper around I will pretty much write on anything but I never hit the computer
posted on #6
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
I only Use the Computer at the End to do Final Edits and then To Print Out so others don't have to deal with My Penmanship.
I believe everyone has there own special way that works for them.
Usually, Repetition leads us to the easiest most efficient way.:)
Edited by FRANK2654 on 09-06-2017 08:37
posted on #7
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Joined: 18.10.14
Interesting how we all differ but is a great subject for discussion and drew me into the forum for the first time thanks
posted on #8
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Posts: 7
Joined: 13.01.17
another thing I would add to the list.. at least for me, is a recording device. I find that stopping to write down lines can actually make song writing an impossible task. So, I hit record and start singing. When the lyrics are flowing you do not want to stop the flow, just go with it. You can always come back and change things you really don't care for, but the main point is keeping the flow going until you get that first rough draft. I have written songs that took days, but have also written songs in a few minutes.
posted on #9
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I use I line with I make and try to make a story of it
In parts
I listen to the music and start with some words
It all depends on mood by me
posted on #10
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Posts: 245
Joined: 19.08.13
I guess different song writers have different allegories to describe their workflow.
For me songwriting is like walking in an endless field of wild, unseen flowers and you pick some to collect a bouquette for your lover - or the lover who has left...

All you have to do is to pick the first flower and then continue.
Here is an actual example: Play an arpeggio of "xx3673". This is a very easy chord if you use a capo, take a D, slide up one bar and lift the middle finger.
Decide about the direction you want to go in the endless field.

Writing lyrics can be simplified if you use an expensive favourite ballpoint pen. Every tool you use should give you an airy feeling.
:)
Was born in an analog world.
posted on #11
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Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Thanks to all who join in this forum.
I feel collectively we can share some interesting and helpful tips and tricks.
Edited by FRANK2654 on 14-06-2017 05:10
posted on #12
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Don_T wrote:
another thing I would add to the list.. at least for me, is a recording device. I find that stopping to write down lines can actually make song writing an impossible task. So, I hit record and start singing. When the lyrics are flowing you do not want to stop the flow, just go with it. You can always come back and change things you really don't care for, but the main point is keeping the flow going until you get that first rough draft. I have written songs that took days, but have also written songs in a few minutes.

Yes Don I agree 100% a Good Recorder is Very Helpful and Time Saving when working on new songs.
And the Idea of keeping the Flow Going is True.
Sometimes I just do Scratch Vocals and /or Scat Vocals just to get the Creative Juices Flowing and help set the tempo and meter of the song both for the music and the lyrics.
posted on #13
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Neronick wrote:
I guess different song writers have different allegories to describe their workflow.
For me songwriting is like walking in an endless field of wild, unseen flowers and you pick some to collect a bouquette for your lover - or the lover who has left...

All you have to do is to pick the first flower and then continue.
Here is an actual example: Play an arpeggio of "xx3673". This is a very easy chord if you use a capo, take a D, slide up one bar and lift the middle finger.
Decide about the direction you want to go in the endless field.

Writing lyrics can be simplified if you use an expensive favourite ballpoint pen. Every tool you use should give you an airy feeling.
:)
Yea you are Absolutely Right. I have a Special Pen. It is so Special I buy Refills for it.
posted on #14
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
axenvocs wrote:
:)
FRANK2654 wrote:
Tools Needed or at the Very Least Helpful.

A Songwriting Attache Case .. Lots of Loose Leaf Paper and Pencils/Pens and Lots of Whiteout.
A Highlighter Also is very Helpful.
I also use Computer NotePad Program but usually not till I reach a Certain Point on Paper.
You will Be Writing Many Song/Drafts at Least 5 Drafts until you Reach that Point where your Song Begins to take Shape/Structure.
You Will NEED :
****The Patience Of A Saint
**** The Organizational Skills Of a Corporate Mogul.

This Thread Is Now Officially Open For Comments and Discussion.

Please Keep Focused on The Subject Of Songwriting.

I Do Not Have All The Answers.
I Only Know What I Know...And What I Know Is Always Debatable.
Just Smile.....This Is Gonna Be Fun !
Frank2654

I sure do have lots of scrap paper around I will pretty much write on anything but I never hit the computer
Scrap Paper is Cool and Environmentally Sound:) Just as long as you can find it weeks from now.
posted on #15
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
COPYRIGHTING YOUR MUSIC

THE SAFEST THing to Do is :
1) Get A ASCAP/BMI Account
I also believe TUNE CORE is another Way to Protect Your Works and maybe Others too. Register Your Songs Showing Proof of Ownership and Of Any COLLABORATORS and Percentage of Participation.

2)Submit Your Work to a Institution Like in USA "Library Of Congress"

3) UNDERSTAND Copyright Law and Find a GOOD MUSIC COPYRIGHT LAWYER to Protect Your Interests.

My Opinion
Is that if you take your Music Seriously then you better Seriously Protect It.Cool
posted on #16
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Posts: 4
Joined: 04.06.17
The way I devekop new riffs/music, is to simply grab my acoustic guitar, jam away while watching Netflix/Amazon prime... if I come up with something catchy, I go straight to my laptop/interface, plug in my condenser mic, then get a rough recording of it.
posted on #17
Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 19.08.13
A second thought for this little thread.
There are thousands of ideas and helpers on hundreds of sites or threads for people who wonder how to improve their song writing skills.
I see a difference between the art of songwriting, the technique of songwriting and the workflow of songwriting.
Of course you can't compose what you can't play technically. It general it is not important what you play but how you play it in your style.
Writing your own songs give you the great opportunity to play your own songs in your own style. Simply spoken, you can be authentic.

A new song is an evolution of something that already exists.

Don't hestitate to use the simpliest chords you can find. Just tap your feet or dance. Every song is a little short story and has a message you can't hide.

My ultimate rule is: keep it simple but use some spice because this is my personal taste.

Leo Kottke once said: "I take a simple melody and drive it into the ground".

Yeah, "Morning is a long way home".
:)

The art is to find a piece of wood and see the hidden beast with the eyes of a sculptor.
Edited by Neronick on 23-06-2017 11:41
Was born in an analog world.
posted on #18
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 31.08.11
Well Said My Friend.
:WI
Especially Liked whaT YOU say here and you have Sparked My Interest.

... I Quote You---> "I see a difference between the art of songwriting, the technique of songwriting and the workflow of songwriting.
Of course you can't compose what you can't play technically. It general it is not important what you play but how you play it in your style."


I Agree The Art Of Songwiting contains Creativity, Technique and Workflow..they are All Components And Parts of the Process.

I agree...It's about How We Express Ourselves... sure we have to follow some Plan and Structure at Times.
And Sometimes Ideas come from what may seem Nowhere.
We must TRY also find the Inner Self that Makes Us Different and Unique.
Creativity is Sometimes about making something New Out Of Something Old and Also Coming Up With Something NEW... Never Seen or Heard Of Yet.
A True Original.
This Is What I Believe... At This Moment In Time.

Workflow to me can Mean to me:
#1 The Actions we take to Create 1 song... The Flow Of Creativity.
#2 How 1 Song Can Flow Into Another Song
#3 How many Individual Songs we can Pump Out Productively during a Specific Songwriting Session.

How Many Songs CAN WE PUMP OUT? With Real Meaning
Edited by FRANK2654 on 10-07-2017 20:26
posted on #19
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Posts: 286
Joined: 25.11.13
As a "non-song writer" who hopefully can appreciate a good song, I'd like to add to Nickboy's comments. Style can certainly distinguish and sell a song, yet there are some songs that distinguish themselves. They belong to a rare category where the lyrics fit the music. 99% of songs I've heard recently don't have a good fit between the words and music, even though they may have style and the music can be good or even original.

Used to be that there were separate specialists for writing pop songs: the writer of the music and the lyricist. Also used to be that many of these excellent writers needed to have the other ingredient before they could get their creative juices flowing. E.g. the lyricist needed to hear the music to be inspired, or the other way around. In other words, there was a recognition of, or at least a desire to, make the words and music work together. Maybe it's time to strive for a bit more integrity between words and music? Doesn't matter if you have your favorite pen, reams of paper, or a computer. The creativity has to be there and a desire to communicate something through a musical medium that is greater than the individual processes or parts. Doesn't matter if it takes weeks or comes instantly...whatever works is fair.
posted on #20
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Posts: 5
Joined: 05.05.17
Writing lyric's rule number one .hook lines they come from many source's TV,Magazines,News Papers,poems,people the list goes on and on there everywhere.
Write them down in a book A Hook Line Book after a Few Months You,ll have pages of them.
Yes there are basic rules in rhyming but many of the greatest songs have come from breaking these rules. Listen to Dylan he is the master of rhyme .
tell a story or capture a human feeling start middle and resolution
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