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Wikiloopers, help me to progress ( on bass)

posted on #1
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Joined: 17.10.15
Hello wikiloopers,

First of all sorry for my bad English :)

I've uploaded some mixes recently, try different styles, and I'm not confortable with some of them ( nice and fun way to learn).

As every people here, I appreciate a " thumb up " and compliment of course.

But the absence of " thumb up " is appreciate too. This is the signal that something is wrong and there is something to do to progress,something to work....I'm not disappointed with this, It boost my desire to progress and to do the music "better"

Unfortunately, When the song / mix is not appreciate, rarely, the people left a review,tips.....example :
You are out of tune, you loose the tempo / groove, this part don't suit to the music, the sound is not good, you should play more like this etc.

So you understand the idea.

So I will be pleased if you take time to listen some of my tracks, and left some " tips" here, or directly on the track.

I think that will help me a lot, and probably other bass player (musician) wiki noobs like me :)

Have a nice day and thanks in advance !!

Sebastien.
posted on #2
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 12.02.14
Dear Sebastien,

at first also my excuse for my english.

I sometimes had the same thoughts like you. Since I'm an educated bass player and do playing for now 4 decades, I sometime thought I have to say something. Because I had several students I'm quit sure, that I usually can tell things quite diplomatic.

But guess what? It was such a sensible thing, that I had no success in exchange. Note that I say exchange, I do not want to tell somebody anything. So, in short: I had no success in getting in touch to somebody in a positive way, talking about music or personal abilities.

Now, I'm interested what you experienced? Maybe you made positive ones, I would like to hear about, if so.

Greetings from Germany / Munich
Jörg
posted on #3
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Joined: 17.10.15
JMB65 wrote:
Dear Sebastien,

at first also my excuse for my english.

I sometimes had the same thoughts like you. Since I'm an educated bass player and do playing for now 4 decades, I sometime thought I have to say something. Because I had several students I'm quit sure, that I usually can tell things quite diplomatic.

But guess what? It was such a sensible thing, that I had no success in exchange. Note that I say exchange, I do not want to tell somebody anything. So, in short: I had no success in getting in touch to somebody in a positive way, talking about music or personal abilities.

Now, I'm interested what you experienced? Maybe you made positive ones, I would like to hear about, if so.

Greetings from Germany / Munich
Jörg


Hello Jorg,

Thanks for your reply :
Of course, just tell to someone " hey, that's an ugly music" or " I don't like what you do " it's not productive and efficient.

Maybe :
" not bad, but on this chord it would be more efficient if you play these notes, here you are out of tune"
" good idea, but the groove is bad here because you don't follow the drummer"
etc

3 examples here ( review and constructive tips on my wiki tracks)

First : https://www.fr.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-116181.php

somebody tells me that I'm not really fluid because I'm too concentrate on my playing ( I agree with that, when I push on the rec button, something is lost, the spontaneity is out)

Second : https://www.fr.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-117556.php

Jon-Jon told me that something more basic would be better on this type of music. I will try something different next time.

third : https://www.fr.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-118623.php

Katell told me that the bass sound would be more " mixed " into the guitars ( with more drive and bass).
I'have played it with more medium, the goal was to have a distinctive sound, so I agree with her.

All these tips, reviews, critique were appreciated and welcome, they help me, there are for me 3 good example of a constructive
critique.

Maybe I'm "S-M" to request more critique on my tracks but I think that could be useful.
posted on #4
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 12.02.14
Oh, again I think I'm misunderstood.

First: you are not S-M in my opinion. To ask for external views and impressions is couragoues and a great attitude!

Second: change the roles! So, I did the comment-thing. And this just two times. The examples you showed are even in one case harsher than what I did. I show you, how you can (not must!) criticize the comments, just to tell you my opinion:

"when I push on the rec button, something is lost, the spontaneity is out"
This is partwise better when your experience enhances. I for example never lost this phenomen, I still suffer a bit by this. Others tell me they lost it completely. So it may be a personality thing.

"somebody tells me that I'm not really fluid because I'm too concentrate on my playing"
You can tell, that you are not really fluid, but not why! Or did he/she observe you while recording? Fluid play is a thing I can do and I can teach. It's hard work. Because you confirm it, it is accidentally true, but a commentator can NOT know!

"Jon-Jon told me that something more basic would be better on this type of music."
That is a matter of taste! Maybe it could be answered: No, I just wanted to play less basic to have a certain contrast!

The same applies to Katells comment. So, it is not easy.

But anyway: you can take these comments quite constructive which shows that you really want to know. This is not the regular thing, as far as I can say.

Congratulations! :-)
posted on #5
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Posts: 10
Joined: 17.10.15
Hello,

I understand what you say, thanks.

And I agree with you, a lot of things in music are matter of taste.
( example Katell will prefer an another sound, Jonjon something more basic, but this is welcome).



Fluidity, ok, they don't know why, But I will work on it, so " a good review ":) ( scales, appergios will help to solve this issue).

Ah ah the " fear " of the rec button, maybe it will be decrease with the time " don't think about you're recording , don't think about you're recording , don't think about you're recording , don't loose the groove; don't think about you're recording ...." ;) Strange attitude, but human.

Maybe with a glass of beer !!!

Thanks again for your replies Jorg.
posted on #6
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Posts: 26
Joined: 09.11.16
Don't judge the quality of your performances based on likes, that will just mess with your mind :D Some of my best uploads (in my opinion and others of same taste) has received little attention and few likes, while other mediocre uploads i have done has gotten a lot of likes and attention. This is due to a number of reasons, from how many active friends relations you have on Wikiloops, who you added to, declaration of the song (search words), the style of music to just random cosmic mysteries ;)

Anyways, i will keep in mind that you want more detailed feedback on your tracks :)
posted on #7
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Joined: 17.10.15
eGiL wrote:
Don't judge the quality of your performances based on likes, that will just mess with your mind :D Some of my best uploads (in my opinion and others of same taste) has received little attention and few likes, while other mediocre uploads i have done has gotten a lot of likes and attention. This is due to a number of reasons, from how many active friends relations you have on Wikiloops, who you added to, declaration of the song (search words), the style of music to just random cosmic mysteries ;)

Anyways, i will keep in mind that you want more detailed feedback on your tracks :)


"Anyways, i will keep in mind that you want more detailed feedback on your tracks :)" thanks, I will be glad to read your opinion and feed back.

I agree with you "how many active friends relations you have on Wikiloops) " the social aspect number of friend plays a role .

second thing, you're right again " declaration of the song (search words)" what a boring " step " in the upload progress....
I'm always scratching my hairs.... f...ing key words, sounds like what.... pfff no idea...

But I'm not searching of a lot of thumbs up, that's not the goal.


I will give you and another example : sometime I listen to other bass players, and they are out of tune, wrong notes, because they play on the wrong tune / chords.... groove ok, but this is not nice to listen.

Nobody will tell them ..... " oh you play on a C7, but its a ...."

I've think this, If these bass players( or other musician ) don't hear that they are out of tune, maybe I'm myself in that case.

I would be pleased to know that.

I could give other examples but you understand the idea ^^
posted on #8
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Posts: 7
Joined: 02.04.16
I think the magic of wikiloops comes from the "Post Compliment" button. Whoever labelled that button is a genius! It makes it such a positive and encouraging place. I appreciate you wanting constructive criticism, and I find that it does come -- especially if there is an obvious problem like your mix has one part out of sync with another, or you are clipping. Beyond those kinds of issues, we have lots of people here of varied abilities, and I think it is harder to give feedback to a less experienced musician where there is nothing obviously wrong. In this case I would seek out people who you like the playing of and ask them directly. Or the other musicians on tracks you contribute to. For example I've had lots of help with mixing from OliVBee, whose mixing skills are excellent, and I found GlezBass is a super-knowledgeable technician on the bass who is more than ready to give advice about bass sound and playing. I think direct questions are best -- "Hey Joe, I'm not sure I put the best part in to track #12345. How could I improve it?" I am very happy to give detailed advice where I can if I'm asked, but I probably wouldn't share that with a thumbs up and a comment unless asked directly.
posted on #9
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Joined: 07.06.17
Dude your bass sounds good. The examples were really opinions. I’m not saying to disregard them or anything. Just take what you can from them and keep playing.
Live, laugh, bass
posted on #10
Member
Posts: 334
Joined: 25.03.12
One other thing to consider here is how to assess your own playing. Constructive criticism is of value not only to teach you how to adapt your playing but also your listening.

I am very aware of many of my flaws and quirks and i could spend an eternity practising and rectifying them, but that would probably be time less well spent. What interests me is how others perceive what i am doing and how that relates to what i intended to communicate.

Remember good music is a fine balance between surprise and familiarity and nurturing your ability to surprise is a good thing. But the base for both familiarity and surprise is confidence so maybe that is the thing to strive for

Have a look here: https://bulletproofmusician.com/5-ways-to-prevent-rage-quitting-on-discouraging-practice-days/
And click ans read the reference links as well
Edited by nilton on 22-10-2017 11:28
Pure fingerstyle
posted on #11
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Posts: 333
Joined: 27.02.15
Hi C-Bass!

It's very easy to get hung up on 'likes' and there are many reasons you might go unnoticed. Wikiloops is a busy place these days and I struggle to keep up with the adds. I've done tracks that I think are some of my best only to have a few likes yet the simple, easy-to-join-in tracks are the ones that are always the most popular. I also have tracks with few likes yet tons of downloads. Just don't sweat it.

'Likes' aren't about how good you are or how well you play, it's people showing appreciation that the track is useful to them. That's how I see it, at least.

All my 'most-popular' tracks are simple, straightforward 4/4 time. Complex arrangements, tempo changes or time signature changes, are all good and clever but, due to the massive range of skill on here, you're effectively shutting players out who think it's 'beyond them'.

Bass, like drums, aren't really an instrument that stand out on their own so you need to think in terms of what you add (or create a template) and how it could be built on (hard, I know). Conversely, drums and/or bass can genuinely make or break a song and you'd notice if they either weren't there or didn't fit in. Play it cleanly, confidently and supportively and people will love it. Play it like you would in a band: your job is not to stand out but be part of a complete sound made up of many players.

With regard to mixing, think in terms of the whole sound. Don't put yourself out front to showcase your playing. Put yourself in the context of the music and what you add. Although with drums it's slightly different, I would aim to mix where you only really get noticed if you were muted from the mix. It's difficult but Wikiloops members will help you with this. They will say whether you're too far forward or back. Just learn from it. I did. My mixes now are a world away from the uploads I did when I first started here a couple of years ago. Furthermore, don't be shy about adding an HD version. I know it's hard sometimes to offer just your playing on its own because, certainly for me, it never sounds as good as it does when it's in the context of the song. Nobody likes being under the spotlight but adding an HD will improve your chances of remixes, in my opinion. Adding an HD version allows other to mix it for you!

The 'best' loops, in my experience and as a drummer, are the ones where it's simple, solid and accessible to all abilities of player. A very simple loop with an easy structure to follow will *always* be more popular than some clever thing. My second or third most-popular template on here is just a 12-bar blues drum track..! Simple means more people have a use for it.

So to answer your question: to improve your playing, focus on playing simply, confidently and to the very best of your ability. If a little run or fancy riff isn't proving easy to play and sounds messy, leave it out. Simple as that. Stay in your comfort zone unless you're deliberately wanting to take something challenging on!

The likes, etc., will come if people establish you as a reliable player. They won't if you're posting tracks at 200 notes per second!! I'm not saying you do, of course!

I hope that helps and, of course, all in my personal opinion.
Edited by mpointon on 22-10-2017 12:36
posted on #12
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Joined: 22.03.14
I think the best thing about Wikiloops is listening to other people play. I just listened to #119466 by onorium. To be honest, I never would have thought of playing the bass they was he does on this track - it is just so cool and different. Your ears are your best tool to get better I think. Also, as others have said, likes are nice but should not really be the point. What is the best feeling for me is when I think I mesh with and complement the other players on the track well. That doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, that is the magic of music and the magic of Wikiloops :)
posted on #13
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Joined: 17.10.15
thanks for your replies wikiloopers.
I will keep your advises and tips in mind.


Bhunt1 I understand, fort the moment I listen a lot ernie and egil. They are great players and good source of inspiration !
posted on #14
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Posts: 37
Joined: 22.03.14
Those are some really great bass players c-bass. I have one more suggestion - Mulambo. His bass parts are always so well constructed and fit the song perfectly.
Edited by bhunt1 on 22-10-2017 22:56
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