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The next big live jam?

posted on #1
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I know it seems like it's a long way off, and there are lots of unknowns right now...yet it seems like a good idea to get an early indication of how many might show up if/when there is another jam in Germany late next August/September. There are quite a few members I've heard (who haven't already attended) swearing they would make it to the next one. Could it be that too many players will want to show up? Are there alternatives other than restricting numbers?

Other jams in other countries would certainly be one idea. Is there someone in another country who would become the organizer? Somewhere in Southern Europe? East Coast USA? I'd love to have one in Australia or New Zealand, but I fear not many would show up (geographically $$ undesirable).

Your thoughts and intentions?
posted on #2
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Wade - I would love to come to a Wikiloops jam in Australia!
posted on #3
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I have everything crossed on making it for next year's jam! I'm already putting pennies aside. I'm still sulking I missed this year.

Just as a thought, I wonder if it's worth considering some kind of Skype/WhatsApp/Facetime, etc., groups that could get together for just a music chinwag at set times? Group them by region (although any time zone would be welcome) and people just chat music or go through ideas that others could help or comment on?

It's just a shame that internet latency means you can't play live together!
posted on #4
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mpointon wrote:

Just as a thought, I wonder if it's worth considering some kind of Skype/WhatsApp/Facetime, etc., groups that could get together for just a music chinwag at set times? Group them by region (although any time zone would be welcome) and people just chat music or go through ideas that others could help or comment on?

It's just a shame that internet latency means you can't play live together!


Good idea! Especially if it's possible for a group (like in the UK) to consider organizing a live jam of their own in a mutually agreeable place. UK is ideal in some ways as you have great transport systems. Everything gets difficult when you've got to get across the channel and the distances are greater.

I can't see how the internet will ever replace live, even without latency problems. In a live situation you can see each other and get all those visual clues. Also how would you ever be able to mix the sound of a bunch of people live on the internet? No problem for each of us to do this in edit after adding to a track. How would that work in live internet situation? A single person who receives all the signals, mixes live and re-sends to each? Sounds like doubling the latency!
posted on #5
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Dadinator wrote:
Wade - I would love to come to a Wikiloops jam in Australia!


Come? Ha! You are in Australia! Yea, maybe we can think of something. Are you ready to fly up to Cairns next winter? There's not many of us that are active players in Wikiloops in Australia, and our distances are pretty huge. To have a good jam we'd need to recruit some players from other areas of the world...kind of difficult for them unless they were planning a vacation in this end of the world anyway. It's also the reason the jam in Germany is mostly populated with local Germany members with a smattering of other European citizens. The tyranny of distance and finances dictates a lot.
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Wade, Yes - I could possibly get to Cairns for a June Jam. I wonder if we could get some others from this neck of the world (NZ, SE Asia)????
posted on #7
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Dadinator wrote:
Wade, Yes - I could possibly get to Cairns for a June Jam. I wonder if we could get some others from this neck of the world (NZ, SE Asia)????


Hopefully anyone interested would see this forum post and say they were interested. Unfortunately not many will see this post. Even fewer active members in NZ than OZ. Also very few active members in Asia with financial concerns probably being a difficulty when having to pay for airfares. There are 20 Australian members with at least 15 tracks they have uploaded. Only 5 members with the same number from New Zealand. 1 from India, 3 from Indonesia, 1 from Malaysia, 1 from the Philippines. The number of uploads may not be that significant (15 is an arbitrary number) yet it shows some degree of interest/commitment. E.g. it's doubtful that the one and only member from Vietnam with one upload is going to come.

By comparison Germany has 82 members with at least 15 uploads, France has 39, England 36, etc. If you're in an area with a larger concentration of members and less distance, and are living in a more affluent society, then your odds of getting a good turnout are much higher. Don't get me wrong...I love living in the world's bottom side...or should that be antipodes? Having Wikiloops means that we don't have to live in one of those Northern Hemisphere cities in order to jam with some of the world's best musicians.

If you're really keen, there 68 members in Australia (totally), who have uploaded at least 1 track. Send them all a PM and find out if many are interested in a winter (June) jam in the Cairns area. The specific area I would propose is Yungaburra as it's close to me so I could more easily organize. There's lots of potential venues, accommodation, good food, good climate (that time of year), and interesting things to see in the area.

Over to you...
posted on #8
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Wade,

How about we pencil in these dates: The 2018 Wikiloops Live Oz June Jam in Yungaburra, Friday 29 June - Sunday 01 July

Also, would you like to bounce this idea off Dick before we do too much planning?

Happy to chat about this on the phone (*****)

Dadinator




edit by dick:
I removed the phone number, never post that to a public forum on the web, it may have unforeseen effects (ranging from getting 200 product testers calls a day to someone trying to charge your phone bill for some service you've never heard of). Send such details (including your postal address) by personal message only, all else is too public IMHO.
Edited by Dick on November 21 2017 09:44
posted on #9
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Sending PM.
posted on #10
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Wade wrote:

Good idea! Especially if it's possible for a group (like in the UK) to consider organizing a live jam of their own in a mutually agreeable place. UK is ideal in some ways as you have great transport systems. Everything gets difficult when you've got to get across the channel and the distances are greater.

I can't see how the internet will ever replace live, even without latency problems. In a live situation you can see each other and get all those visual clues. Also how would you ever be able to mix the sound of a bunch of people live on the internet? No problem for each of us to do this in edit after adding to a track. How would that work in live internet situation? A single person who receives all the signals, mixes live and re-sends to each? Sounds like doubling the latency!


Yep! Latency hell!

I could potentially host something smaller-scale in the UK - noise not an issue here - but I can't put many people up, plus we are a bit out in the middle of nowhere meaning it'll be a bit of a trek from the nearest hotels, etc..! More likely I could arrange something low-key with only a few people, say 4-7 max. I'd also have to get it past LadyP!

But in terms of organising something, somewhere, it's possible, but it would involve a cost (unless another willing host is available) which also kind of defeats the purpose of the 'official' meet in Steinfeld! I'm only an hour's drive from London and 1.5 hour drive from Folkstone, so potentially something near the Channel Tunnel might work to allow 'local' (France, Belgium, Netherlands) Euroloopers to join the fun if they wanted to. Alternatively, I'd consider somewhere in the Midlands (Birmingham, etc.) so it was a roughly equidistant trek from all corners of the UK.

Perhaps an alternative is a 'meeting point' area of the loops where local musos could arrange small-scale meets, much like you and Nuno did.

@Dadinator: sorry to sound like a prude but you might want to remove your phone number from your post - this forum is visible to the wider internet.
Edited by mpointon on November 21 2017 09:41
posted on #11
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Dadinator wrote:
Also, would you like to bounce this idea off Dick before we do too much planning?


Thanks for thinking of me there :) I'm totally fine with you planning something,
and i'm happy to see Wade seems to have discovered the member-search tool to get an idea how many people are out there.
from my experience, one should not focus on the "how many tracks uploaded" factor at all, I've seen attendance of 60% non- or rare uploaders in the german wiki meetings. Do not under-estimate how rare open jams are, and how many musicians love that, but do not record at home.
I'd be happy to supply anything that you may feel you'd like to have assistance-wise, including setting you up with some official looking poster - I'd like to get a signed copy back for the wiki-meet "wall of fame" you may have seen in my recent video address :)


mpointon wrote:
Just as a thought, I wonder if it's worth considering some kind of Skype/WhatsApp/Facetime, etc., groups

Just to bounce that back really quick: I've been thinking to use a wikiloops-internal private Band called "Steinfeld" to handle group communications and photo exchanges among the members, but noticed the Band feature may need some more tweaking until it works as such a medium to large group communication tool (the maximum group members is limited at this moment), but we might want to take it in that direction eventually.
Still, setting up such groups on messengers might be a good idea, too, especially when it comes to travelling about and making last minute adjustments.

I do see martins point about the potential of meetings competing for participants, and I'd hate to see people getting stuck in needing to make up their minds wether they'd consider flying to germany or to england - the down-under or US meet would be something else in that regard. Still, that is no reason not to have different meetings. Maybe it would make sense to try to give each meeting some kind of general direction headline. from my experience, such a meeting serves many purposes, and people come for different reasons. I'll give you a stupid example: If one meeting was about having a party, getting wasted and playing loud rock music until ears and fingers bleed and the other was more of a serious convention of international musicians including a final presentation concert, then that would probably make things easier for those in need to make a choice (I'd assume very few would go to the "serious" meeting, btw).

I'll try to find out about our options in Steinfeld for 2018, just to make sure I know what I can possibly offer in 2018,
feel free to get back to me with questions or ideas, I'm always happy to see people are showing initiative :)
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posted on #12
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OK Martin, now your getting into the planing phase! Sounds good. I don't know if it will help, but I'm intending to be in the UK next September (after the Germany jam...if there is one). Obviously not many from the UK can or do attend the Germany jam, so maybe we can have a mini jam somewhere in your neck of the woods? I think everybody is realistic in knowing that they need to pay for their own food and accommodation. Having any kind of venue (private or a local hall) can work. In Australia and New Zealand Cafes are glad to give over their space for this sort of thing (especially if it's out of tourist season (September!) It gives them a client group that needs to eat and drink plus may(???) attract other customers curious to hear what's happening. I'd be surprised if a medium sized cafe wouldn't be interested. In New Zealand and Australia we have lots of wineries that have mini music festivals every summer. Not sure if you've got an equivalent sort of venue in England. Pubs may not work as the locals often don't like their patch being taken over and their social time interrupted by "strangers"...maybe I've seen to many "Eastenders" episodes?
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