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Mix/master group

posted on #1
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If anyone wants to get in on a mix/master group, where we all get the stems and make mastered mixes and then discuss then in order to learn from one another let me know. This is the track we will be mixing/mastering.

[url=https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-127027.php]jam-127027[/url]
posted on #2
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Hey Keeper,
not sure if you have seen it, but to compare / discuss mixes, you may now embed tracks in this forum (and elsewhere btw) - just use the small "wikiloops" button in the smileys/image/youtube/wikiloops button pane :) (I believe I tried to point you at the optionin the feedback forum, where you requested a mix comparison tool a while ago)
[wl]127027[/wl]
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posted on #3
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Dick wrote:
Hey Keeper,
not sure if you have seen it, but to compare / discuss mixes, you may now embed tracks in this forum (and elsewhere btw) - just use the small "wikiloops" button in the smileys/image/youtube/wikiloops button pane :) (I believe I tried to point you at the optionin the feedback forum, where you requested a mix comparison tool a while ago)
[wl]127027[/wl]


That's fantastic Dick! Thank you! Also you might want to consider integration with googledrive to offset hosting needs. You are a master developer, and you could easily create an API or app or whatever that lets folks use that here. They already allow embeding from g-drive, so it could very well be a very useful tool for folks here, especially where sharing of HD stems is concerned for this.

One thing Dick. The tool I have developed puts all of the players in one place so that you can stop one player and immediately start another and hear the differences immediately. If you came up with a way to put all of the embedded players in one area for this (like a group editable wiki), that would be a good move as well. The players tend to get scattered in the thread. Being able to put them all together would help. I have a template for this, if you'd like to see it and make use of it for this community. Maybe you can take what I have in place and perfect it. I would welcome that. I can share my template and code so YOU can perfect it and everyone wins. I am soooo pleased we can put some focus on this aspect of mix/master. If we do it as a group we are all bound to benefit. I have learned sooo much from people. Thanks for the previous response. I must not have turned on the notifications. Maybe you can give me a link to that thread and save me needing to search for it.
Edited by Keeper on January 16 2018 13:22
posted on #4
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Hey!

The thread I referred to was this one:
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1581

The wikiloops embed widget is a rather fresh development of the past weeks, so I didn't get around to documenting it too well yet,
let me state the state of affairs as a quick overview:
- you can embed wikiloops tracks in the wikiloops forum with the method described above. This allows embedding multiple player instances into one forum post, so direct comparison becomes possible (demonstrated below)
- you may copy the code for embedding the widget outside of wikiloops (forums / blogs, offered as iframed solution) by clicking on the "share & embed" button displayed on wikiloops track pages
- you may "scrape" wikiloops pages and retrieve the according iframe by oEmbed (this is similar to Facebook retrieving a preview image when you share a link).
This functionality is put to use by the wikiloops WordPress PlugIn which jmrukkers recently developed, and shall be added as an optional module to the common forum softwares (care to tell me yours?).
- the whole technical backend to the embed widgets is already outsourced to a CDN provider and runs independent of the wikiloops websites server, so there is no immediate need to follow the googledrive hint (that would probably come with a lot of data privacy issues, too)

I'd be very happy to look at your mentioned template, it's always good to get inspiration :)

To give you an idea how I felt the given embedables could be used to compare mixes:

Given we would like to have a mixing comparison on MrOliVBees recent mixings, let's compare the track as posted by Wade with the version mixed by Oli here:
Wades version:
[wl]126835[/wl]
Olis version:
[wl]126875[/wl]

Assumed someone would post a third version, I'd simply edit this post here to add the third player, keeping them close together.
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #5
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Ok but what I am talking about is a wiki style (editable by all) embedding. Multiple embedded in a post is good but is not global is it? A wiki area (with comments below for discusion) is exactly the template I have developed. Now if you get it to the "global edit" stage so it is wiki, then you have the same template I have developed, through my tinkering with javascript, then you will have made me (and everyone) very happy Dick! The posibility of info sharing and picking each other's minds to develop mix/master and even arrangement, is enourmous! I am so happy you are doing this. I will go back and read again but I think multiple embeds in a post is not global. Only the poster can embed new players so it is not global, and the posts will be scattered. Let me know if you want to see my template, but you already know what I am talking about. I have html 5 players already embedded in a template and members can just insert their mixes into the players. Same idea. It just needs to be a global edit in one area. Maybe make a dedicated wiki style area for player insertion into a central area. Posts get scattered. I will re-read in case I am missing the global part.
posted on #6
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Do you want to see my template in private or should I post it here Dick. You might be able to make direct use of my template since it makes use of google, and google is totally open to developers. Maybe it's win/win here. You could relieve some of the hosting stress and make use of already put in place tools. I would love that, and when people begin to see the power of this they will flip! I have been working on this for years literally, but I am a novice at code. I know just enough to be dangerous. YOU could perfect this an we would all win from it. I am already making good use of it, but a lot of what I am doing is manual. YOU could streamline this and perhaps integrate with some development, and help everyone. YOU are an amazing developer, so if you took the ball and ran with it, the mind is boggled. Let me know, private or right here. I am geeked at the thought of you getting ahold of this template, and refining it for our use here! I WOULD LOVE THAT! I can send you the code or whatever helps. YOU DA MAN DICK! This is the one thing I have seen lacking here. You get this in place it soars! Woooo Hoooo!
posted on #7
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Thank you so much for sharing your excitement :)
I do get your point about letting people add mixes to the list of players, and I'd love to have a look at your template if that can be easily accessed online somewhere- just send me a link by PM if you like.
I do have someimmediate ideas about potential pitfalls (what if twenty people post mixes for comparison... shouldn't one cap that somewhere?
How to arrange comments (which may address just one freshly added track, or the comparison as a whole...) and so on and so on.
You seem to have given this a lot of thought already, so I'd be happy to bring in my dev skills (which are way less professional than you think, its all DIY on my end as well).

i'd be happy for any kind of exchange on the topic, be it here in the public area, a hidden forum reserved to development aspects or via messages, you pick the way,and we'll see where we'll end up :)

i'll keep nay-saying on anything google-drivish, I know that seems all convenient and even cheap, but it doesn't come without strings attached. To build a whole tool on top of the assumption that google will be our friend forever is risky, one change to google drive policy and the thing goes down... but infrastructure is available on the loops, that's no issue that worries me too much (if you don't bring in a million remix comparers per week, that is).
You know i'm always juggling several projects at the same time, so be prepared that this may take time, but hey, let's do it :)
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #8
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Well you know best the admin side of this. I think the people who will download stems, and make mastered mixes is a minority. Most only seem to be interested in jamming (which is ok, just saying). That is why I have had such a hard time getting a full set of stems. Some send them, and other don't making a full mix impossible. Sorry for posting that link publicly. Bookmark it and delete that post if you want to. it works well, but you could perfect it's integration. Once you saw how the google gadgets work, you could no doubt use them in your own code. You might need to do trial periods of the wiki thing, just to watch it and then make rules to keep it under control. I really think the majority won't take the time for this. I seem to be in a minority in constantly screaming for HD stems..... That should tell you something. LOL I love jam tracks, but I am used to taking them full term to mix/master. I might be able to save you some time showing you how I use their google gadgets, which pretty much make up the templates that make up a new page (on my system).
Edited by Keeper on January 16 2018 15:34
posted on #9
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Well even keeping it "in house" and no google drive integration, all that lacks is the "wiki format". Make it global, and you are good to go. I have kept this out of sight out of respect to your work here Dick. Even with all this in place, I am still a supporter, and gladly.

Maybe without the google drive thing, you could still make use of their xml for wiki templates. Github is what google tells people to use to host their code, so you could use it for templates. If you send me a PM with your email address (that you use to login to google), I will make a dummy site in your name and insert the template for you to inspect. Maybe there is code resources you can make use of.
posted on #10
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Maybe continue your in house hosting with secondary use of g-drive in case they do change their policies. They have made several changes which have made this much more friendly to audio collaboration. If a person doesn't monitor it they may not know of them. You can embed mp3 directly from g-drive into a player on any html friendly site. Give your users the option to use g-drive if they want and make it secondary. I mean 15 gigs per account goes a long way. I have four such accounts and I am still gladly a big supporter here. I give gladly. There is much more than just hosting to be had here. The connections alone pay for itself.
Edited by Keeper on January 16 2018 15:39
posted on #11
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You have such a wide variety of talent here. Writers, performers, production..... a wealth of talent and knowledge. This wiki format thing would help the sharing so much.
posted on #12
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I can spell, I just can't type so well. LOL
posted on #13
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Hey,
I'll give this some thought and draft around a little.
I don't want to disappoint you in any way with my view on the google bit, neither is it my aim to discredit your approach - but since I have a very different toolbox from what google offers at hand, going that direction is not an option to me.
Instead of discussing the pros and cons of the g-service, I'd rather try to focus on creating the most inviting page out there to engage in mixing comparisons/contests.
Most of that can probably achieved by puzzling together the already existing wikiloops bits and pieces in a new way.

One of the major issues you are pointing at which will probably be the "thrive or die"-factor to such a tool is the need to be able to spot wikiloops collaborations offering ALL single tracks before one starts a remix contest (I don't know why the word "contest" seems best to me in this context, don't let that confuse you, I'm brainstorming).
So, to me, a first thing to create is a list of wikiloops collabs which do have all single tracks. No big deal to do that, but crucial to know where one can start off.
Next, one would need to be able to pick one of those tracks and start a new remix contest, thus creating a new page on which the comparison will happen (that's pretty much what you worked on, as far as I have seen).
Then, that newly set up "contest" needs to be promoted in some way (think: "latest remix challenge" on the wikiloops home page) to attract some interested sound engineers - the best comparison page won't help if you can't attract people to visit it :)

I'll do a visual draft of which functionalities I'd like to include on a sample comparison page later on and post that up for your review, like I said, I believe most of the desireable functions (comments, players, newsfeed alerts on interactions, easy-upload-link etc) can be adopted from the other wikiloops pages quite easily.

what I would not want to mix up is the act of adding ( = recording something on top) and remixing ( = remixing a given set of audio tracks), so offering a fixed set of tracks to use right on the comparison page seems the ideal solution here.

Uploads to a mixing contest could show up in the "normal" wikiloops as "Mixer" remixes, they really only need one additional parameter (the ID of the contest, so to speak) to make sure they appear on the correct comparison page, too...

shouldn't be too much work to puzzle that up, I'll see what can be done :)
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #14
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The only collab I have seen here (that I know of) where all parts were given as HD stems was from ake. There rest I have seen one person gives a stem and then the other won't or at least one doesn't. If there is no interest in this that's cool. I even had one guy tell me, if you think you can do a better job just mix it without my part". That's not the point. It's also not a contest, at least officially. If you hear someone making a far superior mastered mix, and he is willing to share HOW he achieved that, it is not so much a contest as much as education. Contests are for football IMHO. It's more about learning. It just brings it all together to put it all in one place, rather than having to search through posts to find all the players. Cool. I will be watching. Thanks Dick.
posted on #15
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Contest for trophy instead of shared knowledge seems to miss the point to me, but you know what is good. Thanks Dick.
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