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Criticism on wikiloops

posted on #1
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Hello to all readers

we wont be cruel on wikiloops, and sometimes I am cruel in my comments. Next day I read it and delete it. Why was I cruel? I have wait to long with my comment.
OK, otherwise I will have respond more than, nice, good and so on.
Sometimes I do experiments, and I want to have respond.
That could be: you are to loud, there are wrong tones in it, you do not fits in the rhythem and so on and on.

we wont be cruel, but I will criticize and I WILL have criticize. Because only criticize will help me to get better.

Best regards
Lothar
posted on #2
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+1 for saying if something could be improved, we all can learn from each other. nah, make that all minus alexj on bass, lol
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #3
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dude, don't say that, you put my double bass playing to shame :-)
posted on #4
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:) I was wonderin if you'd ever come by that post of mine alex :)
all I wanted to express is my really big respect for your skills,
to be honest, mine wont allow me to jam freely with any band really. I know what I know, and my timing is OK, but when listening to you, I always fel like you have left behind the point of havin to thnk too much, giving you the chance to listen and do crazy great things. Thats so wow to me man :)
I always have to cut and loop alot to get a good upright take done, this is not about putting myself down, I am just always amazed how someone with your skills has an interest in jamming with people like me and some other far-from-pros on wikiloops. Thank you man. Just take it, its an honest expression.
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #5
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I hate to break up the lovefest between Dick and Alex :) but back to the original topic...

...I understand what Mando is saying. Sometimes criticism can be constructive and helpful. But I really love the fact that everyone is so encouraging here. I have tried to do some things musically that I wouldn't have tried if people weren't so encouraging. I'm not afraid of screwing up because I know that no one is going to make me look stupid and belittle me. That is just a huge blessing and I'd hate to lose that quality of Wikiloops.

Maybe a better way to voice constructive criticism would be through sending a private email instead of posting a criticism in the "compliments" log.

Tink
Layin' down the beats like a novice
posted on #6
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If many people hear your upload but few thumbs come, then you know there is something wrong in your remix. But you don't know what it is. I can understand mandolodda well

The idea of Tinkeround is good with the private news. But who makes the effort with that?

Perhaps you close an agreement with somebody whose taste and opinion are important to you. He can give you the feedback that you want.
what do you think of it?
posted on #7
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Joined: 10.09.11
It’s one thing for someone to comment with constructive criticisms, we all need that some more then others haha (like me) but is quite a different story to be a troll and post insulting comments with the intent to belittle a member because they disliked a session.
I must say that I was very happy when the “thumbs down” was removed and still feel strongly that it has no place here. The one think I like about this group is the fact that I can try some really different things without feeling like a total jackass. Just listen to some of my stuff and you know it’s a bit different from the “typical” blues harmonica player.
I for one commend you Mandolodda for taking the time to post something like this thread. I think it shows you care about the site and your fellow members enough to explain yourself. Its little things like this that will always keep me coming back for more.
:D
Oh and Drill you hit the nail on the head.
Edited by ToadCruncher on 11-09-2012 05:01
posted on #8
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I remember gently suggesting to a keyboard player that I was jamming with that she should try playing in minor rather than major tonality, like the rest of the band, and she burst into tears and left the room. So yeah, you have to be incredibly careful with criticism, constructive or otherwise!
posted on #9
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OUCH! "like the rest of the band..."...

maybe you should have asked wether she by accident knows the diffrence?

As a student of social work, I was taught the so called "sandwich technique" of givin feedback - the idea is to sandwich the criticism between a nice statement to open with, and a nice statement to end with.
In alex case, maybe: "hey, thats a great harmonic line you play! Could you try that in minor, too? Love how this sounds together girl!" would have caused a diffrent effect :)
Sounds really cheap, works pretty good most of the time...
now please dont run off checking my comments, lol
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #10
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Yeah man. The 'rest of the band' bit should have been in brackets, i didn't actually say that out loud ;-) but yeah, there are gentle ways of making suggestions. Music is a very personal thing, and it's easy for people to lose confidence. At the same time though I guess, if you upload anything to the Internet you are inviting critique, so you can't be overly sensitive.

Definitely something to think about anyway..!
posted on #11
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I dont mind criticism as long as its meant in the right way and not nasty, I post stuff that i jam to and dont spend time mixing or getting heavy in the studio because i dont have any idea what i am doing in the studio. My technique is download it, play along and record and upload it again, seems to work sometimes:)

Critisism done correctly is good as it helps us learn or should i say me learn.:D
Edited by 9thaspect on 23-09-2012 00:20
There's a reason why women love us bass players.The tone is like Barry White's voice, and the strings are thick like Ron Jeremy's...well, you get the point.:D
posted on #12
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I like all comments to my post and at the end: better I have a comment whats wrong as no thumbs without commends

best regards
Lothar
posted on #13
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hells ladies and gent as far as what drill said tinkeround dont take that thumbs up to heart im 2 days old to this site... and i downloaded 2 of dicks reggae songs but i dont remember if i gave em a thumbs up but i like it and when i was looking for a song i passed their were others that i did the same to.... not thinking about it sorry to those peole no harm no foul:o
Edited by shocker 369 on 03-01-2014 23:25
posted on #14
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im gonna throw my hat into the ring on this....this is from a blog I wrote several years ago on another site.....not so ironically it still applies.....

Warm fuzzies are addictive and can lead to false self-opinion.......

Sometimes we all need an "attaboy" or a "cool tune" ......but I think those of us that want to hone our craft need solid reviews and critiques.....I left my old site because I felt a little restricted there in what you can say to people without...hurting their feelings....

When I get a review,(and I've gotten quite a few here so far which shows an active and involved membership)....most are positive with lots of back pats and very little substance, (not so good) and a few are reviews with good suggestions and actual critiques (a very good thing!) I then make a beeline to that persons page....not just to return the favor, but to see if their material represents that they know what they're talking about and their opinions can actually help me reach my musical goals.....so far I've only ran across a few like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are lots of great musos on the site that I have yet to stumble upon, and I do tend to stick with genres that I'm comfortable with, but I have detected a pattern.

Now I realize we are all at different skill levels here, and some of us don't have access to all the nifty bells and whistles that we salivate over in those new gear magazines.....heck I don't have a top of the line studio here, but I at least try to stick to a few personal standards and not release material that's just not ready......nor do I give the obligatory pat on the back that so many seem to want...lol...actually I don't review at all if I feel the person will become offended by constructive criticism ....which kinda defeats the whole idea of reviewing IMHO.

If we as artists are releasing the products of our craft into the realm of public opinion, then we have to realize an important truism....YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME!!! There's bound to be someone that will think the mix is too bright, your song structure isn't cohesive, your chord structures and progressions are repetitive and lack direction....etc....etc. But these very same opinions are that which allow us to grow and evolve and become masters of our craft.
.....whew....got kinda long winded here...lol....guess I needed to vent....anyway, when you drop by my page and give a listen to my tracks......please only leave warm fuzzies that have been earned!
Peace!
Cee
BigDaddyCee attached the following image:



Edited by BigDaddyCee on 10-03-2014 03:15
posted on #15
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Joined: 23.11.13
I think there is a tremendous amount of appreciation for the fact that, in most cases, a lot of work has gone into a jam, and it's being given for free, so for most of us, that appreciation is what goes into giving a "Great job", etc.

I would actually like to get some constructive criticism on my jams. I think the best way to get it is to explicitly request it in either the description box or in a comment under the jam.
posted on #16
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I agree about asking for help / criticism. We're all at different levels on this site. Keep it fun. Most of us have cheap and crappy recording stuff. For the most part some of the quality is still fantastic. I really dig learning about the mixing and .VST effects etc. It's all about each individual having a blast and jamming away. I love it when we hear something really good from someone who is too busy to be in a band, but manages to post on wikiloops. That's a true gift. I'm sure there are many musicians in the world who never got a chance to develop their talent due to careers and family. Technology is changing this. I used to shake the windows in the house to record guitar, hard to do when the kids were babies. Now with .VST amp simulators you just record direct and use headphones. Much less stressful on those living around you. - Slim
posted on #17
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Joined: 19.08.13
I don't think you can learn something by criticism. Example given: I need to improve my english. How can I achieve this if no one corrects me?

How do people learn? To speak/write or to do music or to use a metronom correctly?

I have a general criticism: On Wikiloops there is a kind of added latency, so after the 4. or 5. remix the timing of the tune seems to brake to parts (6ms+8ms+6ms=20ms). The microtiming on many tracks is getting worse with every remix. Some people can manage this problem, this is the reason we found absolute professionell songs, but others need technical helpfiles.

But if someone really plays out of time or withouts rests, there is no need to criticism and this is the most frequently phenomenon. Everyone has got ears. If someone use cheap digital effects with terrible guitarsounds he adore or makes music you can't wip your feet...let it be.

Is it criticism if someone states: "Everybody does the same over and over again...in other variations...."? :-) It is an important fact and maybe the main reason for those "One-hit-wonders" in former days.
Was born in an analog world.
posted on #18
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Got to join in on this one once more...
many have pointed out the crucial aspects - I give a +1 on asking for the kind of feedback you want when posting a track, its the best door opener.
As for Neros statement, I'd like to emphasize wikiloops does nothing to the tracks audiowise at all, if there is latency, it happened at the recorders desc, not on wikiloops.
One thing I'd like to throw in is, that, after thinking about it for many hours, I guess the motivation of those uploading music here is too distinct to have a one-sie-fits all rule on how to apply criticism.
A fast recorded fun track with a silly vocal is not asking for criticism on the singing, a alte night jam somebody recorded shortly after he finally got that lick down AND shortly before he got a cramp in his fingers does not necessaryly need feedback on skill or sound, these examples should show it would be wrong to assume everybody is here for musical education or mixing tipps.
one side of music is: expression of oneself.
I am what I sound like, and I can sometimes sound in a way i couldnt be in life, just for the fun of exploring something.
That is why I find it easy to say something good about pretty much any track that doesnt hurt the ear - if its a moment captured in music where someone felt what i am listening to now, theres the quality I'll always give a "meaningless" positive comment on :)

So, if you want me to tell you again when you are obviously too loud in the mix or off timeing, or even worse detuned, just say so in your track description, and I'll do my very best :P
have fun yall...
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #19
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just to weigh in and necrobump this. I have noticed how "nice" this site is. Its really great and is a big contrast to a guitar forum I was posting on where every thread was a flamefest.

That being said I must mention that I see people bending over backwards to tell others that a track was "great" "genius" "perfect" etc etc. Then I listen to it and it is way mediocre and soemtimes its very "beginnerish"

Being nice is one thing but going overboard is another. Now when I post something and someone says its "great", I have to weigh that aginst the fact that they told the guy singing off time in the wrong key that he was "great" also
posted on #20
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Posts: 80
Joined: 10.09.11
Hey Jon, I think your correct on some levels, but for me a compliment depends on a lot of different factors, Yeah so I know I played my harmonica part was out of tune a bit and missed some notes. but I'll take it between friends with a grain of salt. and maybe say "thanks man your way too kind."

The first thing my music teacher taught me was to Never ditch your own music ability publicly. Easier said then done lol.. after all we are all own worst critics right?

In the pass few years the constructive criticism on wikiloops has almost disappeared. We Used to have a "Thumbs Down" option (I didn't care for it or use it) but some people would and usually give a good reasons why. Now it seems really hard to get objective criticism even for the learning tools we all need to grow musically.

For me I would like to point out that something is wrong with the session but to be honest I don't feel I'm really qualified theory wise to critique anyone other then saying the gain was a bit off so i just either don't comment or don't thumb it.
I hope you find your spot at wikiloops its a fun site once you settle in

Peace and Happy jam'n
Todd
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