Vocal and harp recording tips
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Aug 31, 2022
Greetings vocalists and recording engineers!
AFAIK, getting the input right is much better than trying to deal with it later in the DAW. So I'll get into EQ and such after I've got the basics right.
I've now got a condenser mike and it's very sensitive, so I've been having trouble getting the volume right and avoiding distortion on Ps and Bs. Sometimes I sing quietly, sometimes loud. I find it very difficult to sing evenly throughout a song. I have a pop filter that came with the mic but it's little help when singing directly into the mic (It's a fist distance from the mic). I've learned to sing at 90 degrees for the Ps and loud bits which helps a lot and it seems perhaps that is the art I need to perfect.
But what do you folks do? Please post your top tips! Thank you.
AFAIK, getting the input right is much better than trying to deal with it later in the DAW. So I'll get into EQ and such after I've got the basics right.
I've now got a condenser mike and it's very sensitive, so I've been having trouble getting the volume right and avoiding distortion on Ps and Bs. Sometimes I sing quietly, sometimes loud. I find it very difficult to sing evenly throughout a song. I have a pop filter that came with the mic but it's little help when singing directly into the mic (It's a fist distance from the mic). I've learned to sing at 90 degrees for the Ps and loud bits which helps a lot and it seems perhaps that is the art I need to perfect.
But what do you folks do? Please post your top tips! Thank you.
+2
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Hello Peter,
I'm no singer, but I have recorded some when I was younger, and also did live (stage) mixes.
So imagine a singer on a stage first - when he/she sings "normally", the microphone is maybe a foot away. They get closer when they want that "intimacy" and the proximity effect which boosts lower frequencies, they get a bit more away from their microphones when shouting, screaming, and so on. That's a technique each good singer will learn.
In the studio it's about the same - except that here (in a home studio) you often don't have an optimised room, so the more you get away from your microphone, the more room sound you will add, and vice versa. Try to get a balance, but still that foot (or about 30cm or so) is a good start. And you are right, singing "off axis" helps to avoid 'plosives.
In your DAW you could try to level conservatively first, don't let peaks get above -10dB, so you should be safe (turn the playback track down if that's too loud, it will help with the mixing in the end). Next, add a compressor if you wish to get some kind of automated levelling of louder and more quiet passages, without overdoing it. Try to start with a ratio of about 2:1 or 3:1 above a level of say -10dB, so you can add some gain to everything which is below that. Try to listen to where your vocals might overlap with guitars and such, frequency-wise, mostly in the 150-350 Hz area where they might get boomy if you don't look for it. This also depends on your distance to the mike, the closer the "bassier"...
But I'll leave the rest to the vocalists, we have some very good ones here :)
Hope that helps,
Wolfgang
Edit: in other threads, https://www.musicianonamission.com/mixing-vocals-how-to-mix-vocals/ was mentioned - there are many tutorials like these online and on YouTube, that might also help...
I'm no singer, but I have recorded some when I was younger, and also did live (stage) mixes.
So imagine a singer on a stage first - when he/she sings "normally", the microphone is maybe a foot away. They get closer when they want that "intimacy" and the proximity effect which boosts lower frequencies, they get a bit more away from their microphones when shouting, screaming, and so on. That's a technique each good singer will learn.
In the studio it's about the same - except that here (in a home studio) you often don't have an optimised room, so the more you get away from your microphone, the more room sound you will add, and vice versa. Try to get a balance, but still that foot (or about 30cm or so) is a good start. And you are right, singing "off axis" helps to avoid 'plosives.
In your DAW you could try to level conservatively first, don't let peaks get above -10dB, so you should be safe (turn the playback track down if that's too loud, it will help with the mixing in the end). Next, add a compressor if you wish to get some kind of automated levelling of louder and more quiet passages, without overdoing it. Try to start with a ratio of about 2:1 or 3:1 above a level of say -10dB, so you can add some gain to everything which is below that. Try to listen to where your vocals might overlap with guitars and such, frequency-wise, mostly in the 150-350 Hz area where they might get boomy if you don't look for it. This also depends on your distance to the mike, the closer the "bassier"...
But I'll leave the rest to the vocalists, we have some very good ones here :)
Hope that helps,
Wolfgang
Edit: in other threads, https://www.musicianonamission.com/mixing-vocals-how-to-mix-vocals/ was mentioned - there are many tutorials like these online and on YouTube, that might also help...
+2
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Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Aug 31, 2022
Thanks for the reply Wolfgang. I've been ill - stomach became like a 'Plosives' factory in a war, was very cold and all I felt like doing was curling up under a pile of duvets. :o I'm OK now. :)
A useful post as usual Wolfgang. Already doing what you said about mic distance. Will turn down the recording level - I always thought I should record as high as possible without going into the red. Will act on your other points too. Thanks!
I'd love to hear from a pro vocalist though. But it seems perhaps they are not willing to reveal any trade secrets...
A useful post as usual Wolfgang. Already doing what you said about mic distance. Will turn down the recording level - I always thought I should record as high as possible without going into the red. Will act on your other points too. Thanks!
I'd love to hear from a pro vocalist though. But it seems perhaps they are not willing to reveal any trade secrets...
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Posts: 476
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i'm in the learning category here BB6 for vox recording, but will share what i know/encounter when recording voice. i use a fairly basic mic, which gets its power from a basic preamp device - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002E56IA/
the preamp does give it a bit of warmth and there's volume (output/input) control which you can adjust based on how you are singing. i feed the output into my guitar pedal before it goes to my sound card for recording. i do that just to use some of my guitar effects for desired outcome (echo, chorus, etc). i don't have any special settings for voice on my guitar pedal, just my usual guitar settings/effects are used (i use a basic Zoom guitar pedal). i do this to not have to tweak too much the voice track, other than volume adjustments. i've also learned that based on how i hear my voice in my headset, affects how i sing. so if i hear it with a dirty fuzzy tone, it makes me sing a certain way. if i hear it more with reverb and a clean tone, again, i sing a certain way. not sure if that affects others, but it does affect me in the vocal styling.
to your point, i struggle with volume adjustments/levels, or singing evenly because i sing in sections at a time. multiple tracks at times, each with volume adjustments. i find that layering the tracks helps get a certain desired feeling as well, although, singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
adjustments made in the recording software might be removing noise (noise reduction/hiss plugin) or adding compression. i've just recently used a pitch adjustment plugin, which is kind of cool. i used it on my last track. it involves duplicating my vocal track, making a pitch adjustment and adjusting the two track volumes to a blend that i like (the original and pitch adjustment). the end result sounds a bit echoish with a slight harmonious feel. still playing with that, so it's a learning process :)
i don't have any technical advice on mixing vox with songs, etc. or what levels to be at. it's all ear for me, which is probably why it's all over the board at times :) i do try to listen to the mix with headphones and with monitor speakers, but am not diligent with that process :)
the preamp does give it a bit of warmth and there's volume (output/input) control which you can adjust based on how you are singing. i feed the output into my guitar pedal before it goes to my sound card for recording. i do that just to use some of my guitar effects for desired outcome (echo, chorus, etc). i don't have any special settings for voice on my guitar pedal, just my usual guitar settings/effects are used (i use a basic Zoom guitar pedal). i do this to not have to tweak too much the voice track, other than volume adjustments. i've also learned that based on how i hear my voice in my headset, affects how i sing. so if i hear it with a dirty fuzzy tone, it makes me sing a certain way. if i hear it more with reverb and a clean tone, again, i sing a certain way. not sure if that affects others, but it does affect me in the vocal styling.
to your point, i struggle with volume adjustments/levels, or singing evenly because i sing in sections at a time. multiple tracks at times, each with volume adjustments. i find that layering the tracks helps get a certain desired feeling as well, although, singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
adjustments made in the recording software might be removing noise (noise reduction/hiss plugin) or adding compression. i've just recently used a pitch adjustment plugin, which is kind of cool. i used it on my last track. it involves duplicating my vocal track, making a pitch adjustment and adjusting the two track volumes to a blend that i like (the original and pitch adjustment). the end result sounds a bit echoish with a slight harmonious feel. still playing with that, so it's a learning process :)
i don't have any technical advice on mixing vox with songs, etc. or what levels to be at. it's all ear for me, which is probably why it's all over the board at times :) i do try to listen to the mix with headphones and with monitor speakers, but am not diligent with that process :)
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rootshell wrote:
... singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
... singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
Have you tried using the pitch adjustment to create harmonies? I was playing around with such a tool the other day and pushed the pitch up by 5 notes. Gets you some interesting harmonies when you blend it with the original track.
+1
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MySounds wrote:
Have you tried using the pitch adjustment to create harmonies? I was playing around with such a tool the other day and pushed the pitch up by 5 notes. Gets you some interesting harmonies when you blend it with the original track.
rootshell wrote:
... singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
... singing exactly the same or in a harmonic way, can be a bit time consuming for me.
Have you tried using the pitch adjustment to create harmonies? I was playing around with such a tool the other day and pushed the pitch up by 5 notes. Gets you some interesting harmonies when you blend it with the original track.
i haven't tried too much yet with the amount of pitch. to be honest, i'm not entirely understanding of that plugin, but it was interesting to hear it overlayed with the original track. i think it would be cool to use in certain parts and play a little more with it. i do prefer the manual process of attempting to sing harmonies, as the plugin gives it a more "digital or manipulated" sound to some degree...i guess it depends on the blending/overlaying volumes. will probably still experiment with it more :W
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Sorry for taking so long to reply, I've been busy catching up on things I had put off. I've done some but still have many more to do!
Rootshell, that sounds useful for guitarists but not much for me.
Wolfgang, many vocalists sing right next to the mic, some at varying distances, so I've experimented and I think I've found a sweet spot of about 9 inches for singing loud and 2 inches for more intimate or spoken vocals. And never singing straight into the mic but at an angle. I guess practice makes perfect.
I'll eventually learn how to apply effects but I've got reasonable results without, so I'm happy that I've found a good starting point.
Rootshell, that sounds useful for guitarists but not much for me.
Wolfgang, many vocalists sing right next to the mic, some at varying distances, so I've experimented and I think I've found a sweet spot of about 9 inches for singing loud and 2 inches for more intimate or spoken vocals. And never singing straight into the mic but at an angle. I guess practice makes perfect.
I'll eventually learn how to apply effects but I've got reasonable results without, so I'm happy that I've found a good starting point.
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