Key, BPM, Time Signature

I discovered wikiloops by searching for a backing track for some lyrics. I had an idea of the tempo in my head and the key. The Search / Backing Tracks page found me plenty of tracks to choose from. You might get one or two by searching YouTube, but the wikiloops Backing Tracks search is the best and gives greater variety.

I noticed recently, but it might have always been happening, that templates are often uploaded without the Key, BPM or Time Signature. This may be fine for gifted musicians with good ears but for those of us who are not advanced and struggle with pitch, it doesn't help. Perhaps more concerning is that all those templates may never be found by people searching the internet for a backing track. And what is more, it is often the best templates that are missing those important details.

So, a request. Please include key, bpm and time signature when uploading a template or remix.
(Where possible or appropriate, it doesn't always apply)

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A big yes to this. And the chord progression is always helpful, too.

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It is an issue. I struggle with tracks not recorded to a metronome - not for timekeeping reasons but because the audio gets pretty mushy in my headphones at the volume necessary to compete with my drums, especially bass and, without being able to run a click, it’s harder work than it needs to be to keep with the track.

You only have to look at the number of tracks on here that languish with no contributions due to this.

Parallel to this is the sheer number of tracks that don’t indicate they have drums on it - just ‘sequencer’. It’s very disappointing to hear an interesting track to find drums already there.

I’ve lost count on how many tracks I’ve had to pass on due to the above reasons.

I guess the only way to solve it is to update the upload wizard to make tempo (or a flag to say recorded to a metronome?) compulsory. Can’t make key signatures mandatory unless the wizard bypasses such an option for, say, drum uploads.

It’s a fine line: making it easy and accessible for all versus getting all the info that’s helpful. Mandatory key signatures would make it hard for many musos and may make them feel excluded.

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Good points from Martin. Having been a victim of the sequencer trap often enough myself, I try'll to avoid doing uploads that would get the sequencer tag and instead do multiple single uploads. Not that it happens often with my contributions, but I can understand the frustration in discovering what hides behind the sequencer tag.
Same sort of frustration I get with single first uploads which already contain drums, guitars, bass etc. without HDs. How on earth should anyone add to that? But that's maybe a different thread/topic here.

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Everything that is commented makes sense and reason, the keys, the beat, genre, tempo etc ....
Although I also think that everything should coexist in harmony and let me explain... there are tracks or jams where putting a metronome reduces sensitivity to musical expressiveness (like my last upload #263433) , and in my particular case putting claves could only confuse another looper since I don't have enough knowledge to make a truthful statement of it.
On the other hand, training the ear to beats and musical keys is another interesting way of making music and training...

Simply the tracks without key signature, beats and declared chords will never receive less, but in my opinion they can coexist with the well declared ones, I myself am very grateful to all the loopers who do so (Marceys and others...), but I must say that they also I really enjoyed Mary's poems, the nude vocal tracks and Eric's "free" tracks or the cool ideas from Phil #219690 and ArkRockStudio for example ;)

Undoubtedly, as a final reflection, it is better to have a good jam with the entire structure up to facilitate the jump of the loopers to it. For now, Wikiloops feels more like a community of very creative musicians, more than an orthodox music academy... but I insist that between 260,000 tracks to date there are a lot of loops to play in both directions

Greetings to all and let's continue to enjoy Dick's great idea!!!🙏❤😎

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Hey Mario,
Don't get me wrong. I love Wikiloops. I think this discussion is not about deficits of the platform but more about creating a better understanding of issues that people sometimes face here and that could be solved by a little self-imposed discipline. I mean, how as a non-drummer should I know that clicks are important to drummers if folks like Martin don't point it out in the first place. These things are just as important to me in my learning process as is the ability to play and record.

Thomas

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Completely agree about the free form aspect Hard for us drummers though! It just means I miss out on some tracks I really like.

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From you my dear friend Martin, I can only say that from your comments, videos, and hundreds of tracks here I have learned to play the drums a little better in a self-taught way!!!
Whenever you upload a bare drum template track, it always automatically goes to my favorite playlist!!! I read carefully how you describe the recording of the track to acquire "sensitivity" in the game of the drums!
And we've made really cool tracks together!!! ;)

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Totally true Thomas!! Putting order on the platform and following an order is the best!

I only thought out loud, rather "in high keys" haha. ;)🙏

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I've added "If possible or appropriate" to my request above, because it's about people doing their best to give details that will help others rather than blindly following orders. Long live wikiloops! :W

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As indicated by Mario, I think there is room for both without mandating a chord chart or that everyone must play to a BPM click track. Hopefully the creator of a template who knows the precise chords they have chosen and BPM will share these for you.

Please consider that making those things mandatory then excludes all those who play in a free form rhythmically (would you wish to exclude a modern Chopin?). Also those who don't play a chordal instrument (brass and woodwinds) could never post a template without dictating to a following keyboard player, guitarist or bass the notes they must play, or they just make up something that's a lie and of no use to anyone.

The nature of "mandatory" also potentially means that one must follow those dictates. That seems against the spirit of this place. This site isn't a "one size fits all" and shouldn't be. That's part of the beauty and allows for growth and change in any direction.

As many have already indicated they can listen and pick up whether the track is already covered for their instrument, the BPM, and should be able to figure out the key and changes. If you can't deduce the BPM or chord structure then you should know what you need to work on. There are also a heap of tracks that currently cater to your needs, and hopefully others will in the future assist you. If really stuck and desperately wanting to play an unmarked template you could PM the poster and ask them.

Wishing all great playing and enjoyment.

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I vote for a WL function to pick a track out of the great basket of all tracks, purely by random. Some guys may know that analogous function on *Wikipedia*, where one can click on "Random Page". This would prevent so many treasures from You all not being found eventually because of the sheer bulk.

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That is a great idea. Personally, I love discovering treasures on Wikiloops. I am forever browsing through older stuff just to get new ideas.

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Yes and no. I totally agree that it`s easy to identify the key and bpm of a particular track and like I mentioned before, I wouldn`t make it mandatory. It`s more of a gentle guideline "If you can supply it, do so, if not, they user can find out for himself". No harm done.

With regards to finding a track, that is sometimes more of a problem for me if the instruments used by ONE contributor are hidden behind the "sequencer" label. No issue if I am browsing for listening enjoyment, but if I`m searching for tracks that contain no bird whistles and I then get tracks labeled sequencer that contain bass, drums and a plethora of bird whistles...bang goes my attempt to add ornithological variety.

Again, this is more along the lines of thinking about uploading in steps rather than bunching various intruments together in one upload and more an appeal than a wish to make anything here mandatory.

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If you don't put in the key or bpm etc, the wikiloops search engine or gargoyle or other search engine, will not find those tracks, or present them in the search results, when a lonesome musician on the internet is searching for a 97 bpm backing track in B flat or whatever. So that poor lost soul may never discover the great track you composed, may not even discover wikiloops, and may end up wandering the barren purgatory of the non-wikiloops-web for the rest of their days :|:o That would be so sad.

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