Honest Critic

Is there room for honest criticism here? There are some tracks with a lot of room for improvement. But the feedback is mostly limited to: Great job, keep it up.
Artists are sensitive beings, I understand that. As a result, there is probably less real further development.

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You can leave brutally honest criticism.
I suggest approaching the person like you would want to be approached...tactfully.

Wikiloops is like a real life band. There are some people whom you become more familiar with musically than others. Connections and trust are built so you can be more critical.

Others ..if approached with sincere critique usually take it well however there is always that small percent that get offended.

You never know.

If you approach people like you would prefer to be approached, and back away if it isnt taken well, theres no issues.

I was told once, in exact words, a mix I did "was unlistenable" and the person was right. It was embarrassing but they were correct.

Thats me , but others maybe wouldnt want to hear that put so bluntly.

I prefer staright criticsm on negatives. I always want to know negatives so I can fix them.

Theres a huge social dynamic here just like in a real band situation. So its always different how people react . Just be aware of that and be considerate as well as honest and try to help the person if they are new to recording.

Constant , unrelenting criticism, then you come off as a "know it all" and that isnt good either.

But if you can be of some help to someone to improve themselves, by all means share with the intent to help them out. Home recording is a process that never stops challenges. We are all at different stages of the path.

You can always send a private messege avoiding an awkward open public shaming of someone. if you think it may cause a scene.

Also realize some are here for quick jams and others have various levels of quality recording equipment.

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You're right, even well-intentioned criticism can easily be misunderstood posted as a normal comment.
Maybe it would need a pre-made form, like a list of possible features.
Like production, originality, timing, pitch, note choices. .. With sub-points on the respective qualities.
Oh, what do I know?
There are some that have interesting tracks but make a jam difficult with too much reverb or chorus.
If a singer can't hit the right note, it might be too personal. I still have to think about this a few times.

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I’m the most anti reverb person on the loops!
It in general drives me nuts. I do use it in snares or vocals but always with extreme caution. Reverb literally gives me headaches.

But that’s defintley a learning curve many need to learn. You can always ask the person to kindly upload an isolated track without effects in HD and remix yourself. Just leave it at that.

Lol that’s a problem that has been around for ages. I went on a rant about that on a thread about two weeks ago!

Yeah definitely tread lightly with that one.

Because of reverb ,I can’t listen to John Lennon’s entire post Beatle solo career.

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Just because of reverb? :)

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Yeah, it's hard to deal with this... in real life too! Sometimes if you tell what you really feel you end up being the bad guy, the one who ruins the mood, and that's not a comfortable situation. But sometimes it needs to be said! I had the same thoughts when I joined Wikiloops, I was like "really? You really think this is good?"... and I still occasionally have those thoughts. I think most people prefer peace over conflict so they choose hypocrisy. And I think we're all guilty of it at some point, it's so hard to tell what we really feel constantly.

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I had a character called Ma Blunt (on another music site) I was honest and rude but I did it in an amusing way by exaggerating and using funny metaphors - people used to ask me to review them, it was a badge of honor to have a Ma Blunt review :)

I had a similar virtual reviewer called Choosy Susie but she was very insincere. She used to ask people "Do you want a good or a bad review?" They almost always chose "bad"

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If someone criticises my playing I'm going to think they are an arsehole. I'm doing my best or I wouldn't upload it. I know my playing is bad but what could I do? Magically play better?
If however someone criticises my mix I say thank you. Mixing is more a taste thing and also depends on monitoring so wrongs can be easily righted, very different from playing which I couldn't do anything to improve so any criticism there is just rude and unhelpful.

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Is there any need to criticize here? Probably most of them play just for fun, so the songs don't have to be perfect.

At least I would have to wait years to learn to play. Not to mention that I would have to exchange my less than one hundred euro bass and free sound card for a better ones 😁


Learning something new is always fun. It just always takes time. On the other hand, a little criticism can speed up learning.

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I also think it's easy to criticise but just maybe the critic has missed the point or misunderstood the intentions of the musician who may have played or sung exactly what they intended and love it!
I know a lot of music that initially appears "wrong" grows on me. A lot of people think Neil Young is a bad singer for example, until they have a moment of enlightenment and realise he is fact brilliant.

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Yes.

Its only my opinion but here is the TECHNICAL reason , I dont llike heavy reverb:

When I interned at Chicago Traxx back late 80's early 90's an engineer Pete Leonardi who recorded the Stones (With Muddy Waters at Chicago Checkerboard Lounge-Its on Youtube), and other name bands, went off on reverb and drew my attention to it. We were drinking and doi ng a mix on somethingin the studio one night and he went off on it when someone added too much reverb. I was like 19 or so.

Basically , his point was even in pro recording environments its been abused to cover bad performances.He specifically used Lennons Instant Karma to illustrate what is a really mediocre performance, if you take away the Reverb. Especially the drums.
Is it a good song..yep. Was it a hit...yep. Could it have been a thousand times better...yep. They recorded and mixed it during a 72 hour cocaine binge and reverb was added because they simply stopped caring and because he was a Beatle, it was "good enough".Thats what the bass player in the video has said.


[youtube]F3qvosHHcWc[/youtube]

Now Phil Spector made millions with his "Wall of Sound" which is basically heavy reverb, but when things are drenched in it, its a real irritant. I start checking "Whats wrong, why are they trying to hide something".

I like this song and It sounded good on AM radio in 1970 but as far as HD ..its a headache giver for me.

This song is reverb on top of reverb. Its on everything.
I would need a full bottle of Tylenol extra strength to get thru it,,,
[youtube]-ms6mJv-Z64?si=9vIZi0ctmR9-8-hQ[/youtube]

His point was that reverb DOES MAKE EVERYTHING SOUND BETTER. But engineers use it as a crutch to mask bad recording techniques or lackluster / mediocre performances. Its too easy to use.

[youtube]jjIx52kDjbg[/youtube]

I like it on snares or else maybe vocals but 99.9% of the time Ill use a delay instead to get depth. Vocals should be with extreme caution where you get a intimate room or stage vibe but not like its thru a concrete tunnel.



On my amp sims I do add reverb but always just so it creates a room environment not a concrete tunnel situation. So its usually 30% of the sound and no more.

I dont mind people using it but for my tastes I prefer without it or else very cautious use. Its one of those things that gets misused because it really does make things sound better. Like Autotune.

[youtube]esl4PA29uqc[/youtube]

Ill generally tune out very quickly if it has the concrete tunnel sound.

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Dan Dettwiler is a master of reverb IMO, I wish I could use reverb as effectively as he does. He has a lot to say about the "physical integrety" of instruments in a mix. If nothing else watch the first few minutes.
[youtube]AlRkidUyp9M[/youtube]

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Wikiloops generally isn't a place for lots of criticism unless the template and the overdubber are on completely different pages. If toes aren't stepped on, but attacked, people will be very defensive. I would welcome feedback about reverb levels and mastering but would prefer personal messages instead of cluttering the compliments area with academic discussion.

As far as dealing with stuff like reverb. Too much and something may be more interesting from a listening perspective, but not fun to jam along with. Work, yes? Then what I've learned from jamming, is to get a feel for the effect. Say, you're producing a template, and you have to know the type of reverb: room, plate, hall, cloud, and that for most templates, with that basic info and a simple dry/wet mix you can blend your track into the download. Some people may tweak size settings, and its pretty easy to get a feel listening and asking yourself, 'is this closer or further to the mix'. Certainly more settings exist, but modifying every preset makes wikiloops work. Something I've done in the past, but now try to avoid.

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This subject comes up every once in a while, if you look through older forum threads you'll see them. It is something that is on many users mind. I think you guys touched on all major points, and although I personally like any critique on my tracks, I am very careful what I write on other people's tracks unless it's a user I really know and know they don't mind. I do comment on mixing and volume. I know that you should not over praise a bad bad track, but one can say things to encourage people without lying. P.S.since I started on wikiloops I learned so much about mixing, I realised how difficult it is, and my appreciation for technician went up up up. It's almost like playing an instrument, you need years of practice. Plus, since wikiloops I hear things in music and notice things I never did before 😊

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All users who'd like to have honest critique on their tracks could state that e.g. in their track descripton :) I also think that generally it is easier to give feedback to friends and vice versa. Regardless of that sometimes external feedback can be very helpful as it tends to be more straigth forward.

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The main thing is always keep the atmosphere light , drama free and fun.

This is my internet happy place.

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