This is your friendly Wikiloops therapist speaking

I think I`ve learned something about my playing style.

Two things really. Past couple of weeks I`ve gone over a lot of the tracks I`ve recorded. Generously disregarding the first 100 tracks which were really just a documentation of a learning curve, two points really stand out.

One, the tendency to not only create multi-layered sound carpets that cover all instruments previously recorded but also that I`m not really selective in where to place my stuff on a track. Generally, I start at start and end at end. The only consideration I usually give is that I use different soundscapes for different parts of a track.

I think one of the reasons is that when I browse through the Wikiloops archives, the templates I select usually already have a full band (Gt, Bs, Dr, Voc etc.) so I don`t really feel that I need to leave any spaces for others to join. On the other hand, there are a couple of tracks where I`m the second or third guest and by instinct though not by design I seem to take the volume of my adds down a fraction. I`ve even caught myself in the past couple of months adding just a couple of bars to a whole track, so there`s still hope for the future.

The second thing I`ve noticed is that when I`m playing melodies (instead of chords), they really aren`t what I would expect keyboard melodies to be like….they just come out that way. A bit of introspection – yes, Wikiloopers are players AND thinkers – has led me to a possible explanation. It could be that my keys are really documenting vocal lines I have in my head. There are tons of tracks where, when I now listen to them, I can hear many unnecessary single notes. Funnily enough, I don`t really hear the notes but instead a word or a phrase, something I would have sung – which I don`t do and never will. I`ve gone back to a couple of tracks and removed those particular notes and suddenly the melodies sound much better. I will really try to focus on not singing in my head while playing, maybe that will lower my level of frustration.

Glad I got this out of the way so that I can now concentrate on dealing with YOUR problems. Feel free to consult Prof. Dr. h.c. MySounds on all your personal musical anxieties. Example topics from my last therapy sessions include:

- I record midi not audio, does that make me a bad person?
- Can I learn to play bass without changing my name to Ernie?
- I failed at my apprenticeship for Wikiloops trolley service, now what?

I`m available 24/7. Female singers and female sax-players by appointment only.

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possibly changing your country to Canada might improve bass play...just a theory :)

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Don't be so hard on yourself, I feel like I've missed the tramway. I can't even keep up with everyone.
My greatest successes are the ones where I do the least. Personally, I appreciate your contributions, which give the tracks something that's missing, an essential atmosphere and the touch that embellishes it.
Enthusiastic at the start, we soon feel our limits, we're frustrated, the self escapes under our feet and it's the self that creates all this, hence the feeling of abandonment. Playing with others is already difficult in the presence of others, but here it's even more complicated because we don't know each other very well. Our artistic and technical differences quickly become apparent, and our egos get blurred in the confusion.
There's no room for ego, because we all have something that the other person doesn't have. If we can realise that, everything will work out. Putting the human before the musician is perhaps the solution... easy to say, not so easy to do. In any case, that's my case. The Internet is a complicated meeting place, but you have to persevere. Wikiloops is still the place where you can put a few bricks, elsewhere you're quickly up against the wall.
Thank you for sharing with us 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

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Hehehe one of the favourites, Mr. Horse

[youtube]KBhC727Dr-g?si=VqcU2lalKik5lmf5[/youtube]

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Let me tell you Mr. Gee: I am fully qualified to work as the resident Wikiloops therapist: 1) I make every other musician here look good, 2) I serve excellent espresso to those laying on my couch, 3) I have a 100% success rate and 4) I am only seldom mistaken for a horse (though it does happen on occasion)

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True Story and have told this to Ernie:
When I came to the loops I played solely bass for about 2 and a half years, I stopped because Ernie plays the exact, and I mean the EXACT part I would have. It was so often I just stopped because "Ernie got it". His approach and mine are similiar and probably because we grew up listening to the same music.We both tend to think "This is the part where I need to add a little fill" and "this part I should maybe stick to the root note"..etc..etc..

I think I understand your approach multi layering sounds but this next comment is not clear:

"One, the tendency to not only create multi-layered sound carpets that cover all instruments previously recorded but also that I`m not really selective in where to place my stuff on a track. Generally, I start at start and end at end. "

Its the "I`m not really selective in where to place my stuff on a track. Generally, I start at start and end at end. "

From a mixing point where you go in the track? Panning? The sound picture?

Or do you mean your playing? Your part. ? i.e. You play all the way through and will work out parts on your instrument on every part in the song until the song ends."

Can you please clearify?
Kinda lost me there and trying to understand what your saying

BTW this is not you persae but the mere mention of "multilayering sound carpets", in my warped mind translates to "sound on top of sound that blurs and unfocuses my mix in a big ball of sonic lo range frequency mud."

However if I stop and look at the musician use of those same words, In my head ,Im creating a "lush carpet of audio texture the listener can wrap themselves in to come along my musical adventure." .....which historically never works out that way, so I revert to the sound guy approach and delete everything and start over.

Im the same way with the term "Warmth". Anytime I hear someone say "Give it some warmth", instantaneously my mind says "oh so make it boring."

Again , "Multilayer" and "warmth" are trigger words that stir up deeply repressed psychological trauma from past bad mixes.

Ive found that in order to allow my creative musician side coexist with my more practical audio sound guy side, I have to split my personality into two distinct persons . Im still working on this but I still have problems arguing with my self and the "Joe the sound guy" side definitely has a more aggressive ,impatient, bullying approach directed at my softer "Joe the musician" side because "Joe the Sound Guy" is sick of "Joe the musicians " lame brain unrealistic, unachievable lame brain ideas.

But thats my problem not yours.

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Joe,

seems I need to put myself on the couch again, so here goes:

The "start at start and end at end" bit ... until recently I haven`t really thought too much about where on a track I "need" keys and on which other parts of a track I don`t need them (need in the sense of "Do I feel they add something?). You mention the "mix" aspect here, quite rightly. And yes, there`s always the issue of where and instrument (or even a single sound) sits in the mix. That is an issue (and issue is really the right word for it) that I`ll probably spend more time on in future.

For the moment I`m more conscious of the question at which sections of a track my keys should be in the mix AT ALL. With that in mind, I`m slowly starting to cut out certain keyboard parts with a less is more idea in mind. For the rest that remains, then the question of where does that sit in the mix comes up. But that has less to do with my instinctive playing style and more to do with mxing skills. (Can`t work on all my deficiencies at the same time, so it`s one step at a time.)

The multi-layered bit ... again, this to me is less a question of boring or mushy but just a statement of a fact I wasn`t really consciously aware of. I rarely use single sounds and single tracks for my adds. Most of my adds are layered in the sense that I record different sounds (sometimes playing the same chords or melodies and sometimes couterparts) and pile them up on top of each other. Whether the result of this combination works for myself and/or the listener might in large part again be down to the mix (and a shift in which individual sounds to push at which stages of a track). But again, that - for me - is step 2, improving something that has a solid foundation. For the moment I`m still working on my ability to create those foundations.

None of these things are really problems that cause me sleepless nights. I just found it interesting to understand how my musical instincts work - regardless of good or bad, exiting or boring. I just hope that with a better understanding of how my mind works, I can use that to either go with my flow or on occasion work consciously "against" my instinctive habits.

Overthinking all this stuff? Not really. It is important to me as I spend a lot of time on my tracks, even if you wouldn`t know it from listening to them :D

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Yes I can relate to many of the points discussed here. There are so many excellent and talented players here, sometimes I just want to crawl under the bed and not touch the guitar ever again ;). But I still do .

However bass players, trying to keep up with Ernie is futile. My theory is that he is from the future. Half man, half machine, half Bass guitar. There are many factors that point to it: 1) He never misses a beat 2) he uploads more tracks than humanly possible 3) he kills (it) every time.

We love you Ernie <3 :D

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TeeGee attached the following image:

Your explanation finally opened my eyes and made it all obvious: Ernie is one and a half man.

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Now now...let`s not praise young Ernie too much. He`s still at an impressionable age. I`m sure we wouldn`t want to destroy a promising young talent. He first needs to learn how to handle fame. Does he have a manager? Could I suggest the very reputable "MySounds Young Talent Inc."?

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As far as playing all over something, some of "my" best starter tracks end up with my contributions completely buried but the end result is brilliant. I'm totally happy with that because it was still me that triggered the thing in the first place.

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Thomas, I like the point you make of "just found it interesting to understand how my musical instincts work". I find the opposite fun as well, understanding and recognizing others instincts and tone/sounds. I find it cool to recognize people's "play", whether it be the style, tones, sound, and everything in between. Same goes for drumming too, if you listen long enough, you hear tendencies :) It's cool to hear those "identities" surface in playing style...I find that fascinating. It's not just notes, but it's a piece of you coming through. Music is so cool in that way.

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Okay Im with you now. Its an arrangement approach you were refering to. I just wanted to understand what you were getting at.

I do hope you realize I mess with people on the internet and the entire bit about having two personalities was an attempt at twisted humor but the trigger word part ...yeah multiolayer anything ...usually has gotten me in trouble when I wear the audio sound guy mixer hat. I do it on acoustics all the time.Acousticeg us really good at it.
If you are familiar with binaural beats the premise is in the left air you hear a tone say 5 hz. In the right ear you hear a 3 hz tone.Your brain hears both and then puts it together as a 2 hz tone.
With Multilayering I can play and acoustic in the left channel, play a similiar acoustic in the right and change it in some way like make it more midrange and the result blending the two is what you hear and it createds a unique texture.

So when you mention m,ultilayering that is what Im thinking you are refering to.

Im on facebook home recording forums and we discussed "Warmth " on night and had a laugh about what musicians mean when they say they want more "Warmth" to the vocal or instrument. I just thru that in because that word musically sets off red flags when mixing much as "Multilayering" does..I want implying anything personally to you , I jyst went on one of my demented tangents trying to be funny.

I figure if I type this much, I should atleast throw some humor in it all.

I love seeing these types of discussions seeing how people think out building songs. In my case I wear many different hats and when Im inspired even in a small way, my imagination kicks in, and I know what I want or dont want before I even pick up an instrument.
I have an encyclopedic knowledge of literally thousands of records I heard growing up and I relate things to something Ive heard before sometimes without even realizing it.

I often wonder what some do that dont have that memory database to fall back on. I know theres others here with that approach but it isnt everyone.

I understand your point of the post better ..carry on ..

I paid my college by working as a professional studio musician back in the day for a majoe radio personality.

I was in the professional environment and the approach was always "What best serves the song". Even if its adding just one note...make it all matter and benefit the song.

The song is the sum of all the musiciams who add to it. At the same time what you DONT add is often more important to serve the song. A second of silence can be very powerful.Sometimes not playing a specific area serves the song by you NOT jumping in and playing anything.

Am I on topic for this thread?

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