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You will not believe how this guy runs his online community
You will not believe how this guy runs his online community
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Posts: 2978
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
The usual "You will not believe" internet post in 2026 would follow up with a bold printed statement here, giving your brain more sparking outrage, so you keep on reading.
I'll try:
"For fifteen years, it's all about Titties and Beer!" claims operator of wikiloops.com
Do I have your attention :D ?
Spoiler: I don't drink beer, and Titties and Beer is a Zappa song from 1978, in case you are too young to know. This post includes words like "boobs", "clogged pipes", "mind-fuckery", "cult leader" and similar to keep you entertained while reading, and i have boldened the spicy parts to tear up the wall of text... at least i tried.
What this post shall reveal are some thoughts on how I aim to navigate the wikiloops community in the future, and yes, some of that will sound quite unbelievable to some, at least that part wasn't overselling.
I am writing this to give you guys the chance to think along and give your feedback. That has been a part of how this platform has been built, and many cool things have come from discussing ideas with you folks in the past. Feel invited to respond with thoughts, I do read these.
"I am aware very few members of the wikiloops community have the slightest idea what it takes to operate such a platform, and how many choices there are on that way, depending on what you are optimizing for"
I have come to that conclusion, so, whenever there is any communication between me (who has to make these choices and knows all the technical stuff and implications), and you who experience wikiloops from the users perspective, there will always be that difficulty of me having to point out and explain some things first.
I oftentimes feel I am most likely loosing 90% of people reading into my communication somewhere in these explanations (it is 2026, attention spans are minimal, that's a fact - i am tempted to include a boobs-pic here to keep your curiosity level up).
"The real problem is: whatever I tell people, they still have to choose if they trust the information I am offering!"
I hope you are skeptical, this is 2026, and a lot of stuff online is AI generated and out to grab your attention, collect your data and ... some other things.
The level of professional and AI-backed mind-fuckery that is applied is beyond your imagination, promised.
If you happen to know some teenage social media addict, be sure the addictiveness is not there by accident, some smart people worked to get to that cocaine level of attractiveness.
Are these techniques in use on wikiloops? Can you tell?
If you think you can, do let me know what makes you think has been applied - I don't think you can tell, nor can I when just visiting some website.
Which brings us back to the fact:
You need to determine your level of trust into my sincerity, including trust that I am not an AI generated fictional character trying to pull off the cult leader act.
Which ever way you decide, I'll have to be okay with that. You are welcome to enjoy wikiloops regardless of interest in what I have to say.
I mentioned there are choices to make along the way, let me give you some examples:
One aspect of operations is budgeting the project. Stuff needs to be payed, money needs to be collected somehow.
Would you want interrupting audio ads?
What could you gain selling email addresses for marketing purposes?
What are the trade-offs of displaying 3rd-party banner ads?
What is a fair premium member price per month? - there are thousand decisions on budgeting, and if you are me, you have to pick.
Another aspect are things that influence community engagement, or the first impression people have of the platform, like:
Should wikiloops be presented as a professional or educational tool, or a hobbyist platform?
Do we encourage encouraging "compliments" between hobby musicians, or over-critical feedback resembling some "next superstar" TV jury?
Should we fake engagement by having some friendly bots like new members tracks, so they feel validated?
When is the best moment to send some email notification, and what should the headline be so people open it? - again, the list is endless, as it comes down to the tiniest details like "do we need another button to do X here, and what should that look like?".
So, to you, only a part of the chosen options at hand are visible - if you have never heard any audio ads on wikiloops in 15 years, then you know which way I chose, easy.
If I state that no user data or emails have been sold ever, then you cannot verify that but have to take my word for it.
There are no bots active to pretend activity on wikiloops - again, this is hard to verify from your end, the only indicators you have are tracks that get no comments or likes at all (a good bot system would absolutely try to prevent that), or an abandoned Shoutbox-Chat that sits idle for hours - humans do that, bots would not, as the first impression this creates is not a lively one, right?
Why am I suggesting to reflect on your trust regarding wikiloops?
Because I feel it is one critical ingredient to how you will perceive future decisions. Any change I make on wikiloops triggers the basic human instinct that let's us re-verify if the changed environment is still safe. I believe that is baked into our DNA, and in most cases, online platforms have changed to their own benefit instead of the users, so, again, experience has taught us to be skeptical.
I hope your curiosity on what the hell is going to change is strong enough to read on - there really is one quite large change ahead which I will mention in this post,
but the meta-level thing I am trying to stage here is this:
You, as a wikiloops user have choices: You can be one of the many that will not read this post, use wikiloops to find some cool tracks etc, you may be a critical observer, or you can be a collaborator on the project if you feel wikiloops is a little more than a place to grab mp3s, and if you trust the story of this being run by a single dude from germany who claims to be not purely driven by cash-grab motives.
The story few people will believe is basically this:
wikiloops is not following enterprise rules, making the most profit has never been the main objective. The mission has always focused on making musical collaboration happen across national and cultural borders, and establishing a worthwhile and positive environment.
And it lasts since 15 years, driven by the idea, my personal time investment and the financial support collected from the community.
This is extremely rare nowadays, after the internet evolved from the wild-west times of the early 2000s to the AI dominated bot battlefield of 2026, which presents a sophisticated surface designed to grab your attention for as long as possible.
I am still at it, pushing wikiloops forward using modern day tools, which in my opinion should not be left to the bad guys.
That's why I am using the superpowers of AI to improve wikiloops, at a pace that is mind-blowing to someone who used to spend months coding a single feature manually.
Let's connect the dots here:
If pace of development is rapidly increased, the pace of decisions to make on the way increases, too.
Releasing the wikiloops app and including an audio recording interface in it was only possible with AI, doing it was a decision I took, since handheld devices are another cultural border I feel wikiloops should not fail to cross. A lot of younger users simply do not have a desktop computer any longer, let's meet them where they live: on their phones.
Instead of making sure new members get hooked by fake bot engagement, I added the "newcomer" badge on new folks tracks, hoping that would help them to get included into the community by getting noticed. It's always these small things one can do to influence the outcome, but if you are not willing to fake it, the result will look less sexy than people might expect. The classic downside of keeping it real. I will get back to new member inclusion thoughts some other time.
Coming up next is a change in the right side panel of wikiloops (for desktop users, that is):
The "online users" panel will be replaced by a "wikiloops live" panel, which includes the online users display, but also features a live ticker of current activity on wikiloops, currently covering track likes, track comments, track uploads and new member signups.
[img]https://www.img.wikiloops.com/blog/wikiloops_live_preview.png[/img]
This widget will become the default for new members, and will sit above the shoutbox widget, adding a livelier impression of what is happening on this site then the shoutbox has for a long time now.
With more and more people browsing wikiloops on mobile, the visibility and use has simply decreased, so I've felt it's time for something else here for quite some time.
Two things to say about that upcoming change:
First off, it will not hurt. If you love the Shoutbox - no problem, it is still there and you can keep it in sight just where it used to live, all good here.
Second - I have put a lot of thought into not making the live ticker a surveillance tool. I wanted to showcase that there is activity, and I wanted to showcase that there is global activity, so the ticker shows the country flags + an activity icon + the track id, but not who gave that like or wrote that comment. The data is real, but delayed by a minute or two, and not all of your activities will surface - except for track uploads, which do state your username in the ticker message. You will have to see it in action to judge, I just felt like pointing out I see the potential issue and am open to making adjustments in case we discover something irritating I may have missed here.
That being said, my main point here today is:
wikiloops may be stranger than fiction in some ways, and I certainly am as a character.
This is our house here, and we can have it the way we want for as long as we can pay the rent. It's a big building for a single maintenance man, so help me out some if you notice a clogged pipe, a dripping sink or a nest of bugs. These things happen, and they do get fixed eventually. You can be part of this ongoing shape-change if you care to, it is as real as it gets.
Thanks to those who read all of this - looking forward to your thoughts if you care to share them! I hope my attempt to mimic the current attention-grabbing style of light news whilst offering trustworthy info worked for you, its my attempt to overcome the hopeless feeling i have knowing that so much of the internet works like that nowadays.
I'll try:
"For fifteen years, it's all about Titties and Beer!" claims operator of wikiloops.com
Do I have your attention :D ?
Spoiler: I don't drink beer, and Titties and Beer is a Zappa song from 1978, in case you are too young to know. This post includes words like "boobs", "clogged pipes", "mind-fuckery", "cult leader" and similar to keep you entertained while reading, and i have boldened the spicy parts to tear up the wall of text... at least i tried.
What this post shall reveal are some thoughts on how I aim to navigate the wikiloops community in the future, and yes, some of that will sound quite unbelievable to some, at least that part wasn't overselling.
I am writing this to give you guys the chance to think along and give your feedback. That has been a part of how this platform has been built, and many cool things have come from discussing ideas with you folks in the past. Feel invited to respond with thoughts, I do read these.
"I am aware very few members of the wikiloops community have the slightest idea what it takes to operate such a platform, and how many choices there are on that way, depending on what you are optimizing for"
I have come to that conclusion, so, whenever there is any communication between me (who has to make these choices and knows all the technical stuff and implications), and you who experience wikiloops from the users perspective, there will always be that difficulty of me having to point out and explain some things first.
I oftentimes feel I am most likely loosing 90% of people reading into my communication somewhere in these explanations (it is 2026, attention spans are minimal, that's a fact - i am tempted to include a boobs-pic here to keep your curiosity level up).
"The real problem is: whatever I tell people, they still have to choose if they trust the information I am offering!"
I hope you are skeptical, this is 2026, and a lot of stuff online is AI generated and out to grab your attention, collect your data and ... some other things.
The level of professional and AI-backed mind-fuckery that is applied is beyond your imagination, promised.
If you happen to know some teenage social media addict, be sure the addictiveness is not there by accident, some smart people worked to get to that cocaine level of attractiveness.
Are these techniques in use on wikiloops? Can you tell?
If you think you can, do let me know what makes you think has been applied - I don't think you can tell, nor can I when just visiting some website.
Which brings us back to the fact:
You need to determine your level of trust into my sincerity, including trust that I am not an AI generated fictional character trying to pull off the cult leader act.
Which ever way you decide, I'll have to be okay with that. You are welcome to enjoy wikiloops regardless of interest in what I have to say.
I mentioned there are choices to make along the way, let me give you some examples:
One aspect of operations is budgeting the project. Stuff needs to be payed, money needs to be collected somehow.
Would you want interrupting audio ads?
What could you gain selling email addresses for marketing purposes?
What are the trade-offs of displaying 3rd-party banner ads?
What is a fair premium member price per month? - there are thousand decisions on budgeting, and if you are me, you have to pick.
Another aspect are things that influence community engagement, or the first impression people have of the platform, like:
Should wikiloops be presented as a professional or educational tool, or a hobbyist platform?
Do we encourage encouraging "compliments" between hobby musicians, or over-critical feedback resembling some "next superstar" TV jury?
Should we fake engagement by having some friendly bots like new members tracks, so they feel validated?
When is the best moment to send some email notification, and what should the headline be so people open it? - again, the list is endless, as it comes down to the tiniest details like "do we need another button to do X here, and what should that look like?".
So, to you, only a part of the chosen options at hand are visible - if you have never heard any audio ads on wikiloops in 15 years, then you know which way I chose, easy.
If I state that no user data or emails have been sold ever, then you cannot verify that but have to take my word for it.
There are no bots active to pretend activity on wikiloops - again, this is hard to verify from your end, the only indicators you have are tracks that get no comments or likes at all (a good bot system would absolutely try to prevent that), or an abandoned Shoutbox-Chat that sits idle for hours - humans do that, bots would not, as the first impression this creates is not a lively one, right?
Why am I suggesting to reflect on your trust regarding wikiloops?
Because I feel it is one critical ingredient to how you will perceive future decisions. Any change I make on wikiloops triggers the basic human instinct that let's us re-verify if the changed environment is still safe. I believe that is baked into our DNA, and in most cases, online platforms have changed to their own benefit instead of the users, so, again, experience has taught us to be skeptical.
I hope your curiosity on what the hell is going to change is strong enough to read on - there really is one quite large change ahead which I will mention in this post,
but the meta-level thing I am trying to stage here is this:
You, as a wikiloops user have choices: You can be one of the many that will not read this post, use wikiloops to find some cool tracks etc, you may be a critical observer, or you can be a collaborator on the project if you feel wikiloops is a little more than a place to grab mp3s, and if you trust the story of this being run by a single dude from germany who claims to be not purely driven by cash-grab motives.
The story few people will believe is basically this:
wikiloops is not following enterprise rules, making the most profit has never been the main objective. The mission has always focused on making musical collaboration happen across national and cultural borders, and establishing a worthwhile and positive environment.
And it lasts since 15 years, driven by the idea, my personal time investment and the financial support collected from the community.
This is extremely rare nowadays, after the internet evolved from the wild-west times of the early 2000s to the AI dominated bot battlefield of 2026, which presents a sophisticated surface designed to grab your attention for as long as possible.
I am still at it, pushing wikiloops forward using modern day tools, which in my opinion should not be left to the bad guys.
That's why I am using the superpowers of AI to improve wikiloops, at a pace that is mind-blowing to someone who used to spend months coding a single feature manually.
Let's connect the dots here:
If pace of development is rapidly increased, the pace of decisions to make on the way increases, too.
Releasing the wikiloops app and including an audio recording interface in it was only possible with AI, doing it was a decision I took, since handheld devices are another cultural border I feel wikiloops should not fail to cross. A lot of younger users simply do not have a desktop computer any longer, let's meet them where they live: on their phones.
Instead of making sure new members get hooked by fake bot engagement, I added the "newcomer" badge on new folks tracks, hoping that would help them to get included into the community by getting noticed. It's always these small things one can do to influence the outcome, but if you are not willing to fake it, the result will look less sexy than people might expect. The classic downside of keeping it real. I will get back to new member inclusion thoughts some other time.
Coming up next is a change in the right side panel of wikiloops (for desktop users, that is):
The "online users" panel will be replaced by a "wikiloops live" panel, which includes the online users display, but also features a live ticker of current activity on wikiloops, currently covering track likes, track comments, track uploads and new member signups.
[img]https://www.img.wikiloops.com/blog/wikiloops_live_preview.png[/img]
This widget will become the default for new members, and will sit above the shoutbox widget, adding a livelier impression of what is happening on this site then the shoutbox has for a long time now.
With more and more people browsing wikiloops on mobile, the visibility and use has simply decreased, so I've felt it's time for something else here for quite some time.
Two things to say about that upcoming change:
First off, it will not hurt. If you love the Shoutbox - no problem, it is still there and you can keep it in sight just where it used to live, all good here.
Second - I have put a lot of thought into not making the live ticker a surveillance tool. I wanted to showcase that there is activity, and I wanted to showcase that there is global activity, so the ticker shows the country flags + an activity icon + the track id, but not who gave that like or wrote that comment. The data is real, but delayed by a minute or two, and not all of your activities will surface - except for track uploads, which do state your username in the ticker message. You will have to see it in action to judge, I just felt like pointing out I see the potential issue and am open to making adjustments in case we discover something irritating I may have missed here.
That being said, my main point here today is:
wikiloops may be stranger than fiction in some ways, and I certainly am as a character.
This is our house here, and we can have it the way we want for as long as we can pay the rent. It's a big building for a single maintenance man, so help me out some if you notice a clogged pipe, a dripping sink or a nest of bugs. These things happen, and they do get fixed eventually. You can be part of this ongoing shape-change if you care to, it is as real as it gets.
Thanks to those who read all of this - looking forward to your thoughts if you care to share them! I hope my attempt to mimic the current attention-grabbing style of light news whilst offering trustworthy info worked for you, its my attempt to overcome the hopeless feeling i have knowing that so much of the internet works like that nowadays.
+6
SUPPORTER
Posts: 546
Joined: Jul 4, 2020
i'm not gonna lie...i saw "titties and beer"...then scrolled and saw "wikiloops live"...was thinking we were getting live titties and beer up in here, like some sort of cam widget :D:@ way to hook me, well played.
that being said, i'm looking forward to the new widget :W
that being said, i'm looking forward to the new widget :W
+1
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SUPPORTER
Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 10, 2024
Makes sense to me . I have a friend who is a software developer so I understand a lot of what you mean from the technical side. I have a lot of ideas but as you mentioned there are more hurdles in place than just a thought being born lol. I appreciate your hard work. This site is pretty amazing . Its Def noticed by me that you have went the extra mile to keep ads out. I feel honestly the price of membership is too cheap. I would def pay more for this experience. I hate to be like that but things arent getting cheaper and I think most of us here would pay a little more to help out
+1
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