A suggestion thread..courtesies/ettiquette, how to help other musicians etc

Is there any such thread etc...for instance where we can all educate each other on how to make our recording so we can interface more easily?

for instance as a guitarist who is always looking for drums to play to, it makes it SO much easier when drummers make at least some kind of chart as to the song structure.

for instance:

intro 4 bars
verse 8 bars
chorus 8 bars
verse 8 bars
bridge 4 bars
chorus 16 bars

etc. That type of thing really helps especially if there is a missing bar or 5/4 bar or whatever.

Ive noticed many tracks where the guitar player has overlayed his tracks and maybe he wasnt listening closely but he's off by a bar somewhere so his chorus starts 1 bar before the drummers chorus and then the drummers ride goes 1 bar over into the verse lol. Thats not the drummers fault but if there was some type of chart or description it would help avoid such mishaps. If nothing else its a huge timesaver


Also for us guitarists, we need all the tips we can get as well. I am trying to use high pass filters on all my tracks from like 200hz and up to keep the mud off the tracks so the bass can have a nice pocket to sit in. I am also trying to leave the middle of the soundscape open by doubling stuff and panning it out to the sides or whatever.

There are probably many things we all do thru ignorance that messes up the next player down the line...if we could hear from each other on it we might make things better for us all

cheers, JJ

Hey JJ,
you are making a very good statement here, something I have thought about a lot, too, so let me add my 0.2cent of wisdom here...
As with most things in life, everything has its PROs and CONs -
I'd definetly say there is a lot of PRO arguments to your idea of wanting more information about tracks (like the structure of verses and bridges, choruses etc), and I have been thinking really hard how this could be easily done. And to those joining later or with any other instrument than drums, I cant say often enough how very helpfull it would be if people would give some chord descriptions with their uploads, so the less gifted have a chance of joining the track...
However, supplying this information does take extra time - there is a lot of options and categories offered within the upload formular, but sadly, many members seem more interested in getting their Track up than in supplying the information you (and me) would love to get.
As an example: ever since the "Tempo" declaration is not mandatory any longer (since four weeks, that is), I see a lot of people who do not even care to declare that - even tho it ads another option to get found by people searching in a tempo range and helps a lot when importing a track into a recording software.
I have the same sad feelings when people give their tracks names like "added Bass" or "Dick + Baer + me", which I find hardly likely to raise anyones attention, or when people fail to supply any tags or extra information which would make it easier to spot a track when using the text-search on wikiloops.
Three years experience on the loops have taught me that only a limited number of people are willing and aware of the relevance (and the added fun of others) that is related to taking the extra effort to supply such information. We have supplied a quite thorough help section to point people at these things, there are articles on "how to find a good name for a track", "how to come up with good tags", "how to create a well sounding remix" and all this, translated into four languages, but obviously, to many there are reasons not to care about this side of the loops. I have little expectations that this can be changed entirely, but I have a great thankfullness for those who ad valuable tracks and take the time to lay out some trail for others.
So thats my point of view on the state of affairs, but still, lets think about what may be done to let more people understand and support what you initially requested.
Here's what I think:
- concerning the mixing advice you feel you'd be interested in - yes, I think there is a lot of headroom to offer tutorials on that, I dont see them as part of the upload process, but rather see another section of helpfull articles located here in the forum or in the help section to cover that. Me and OlivBee have been talking about this as a long term project, for we both like to mix and have some experience that some others might find interesting to read.
If you - or anyone else reading this - feel like joining us in this quest, get in touch with me and we'll see how it may be done - the tipps for mixing your guitar you gave seem quite reasonable to me btw :)
- about the structure of the song: This is something that might be improvable, what I am currently thinking about is adding an option to set coloured marks on the players timeline to indicate when part changes take place in a track - one would have some kind of visual signal to ensure the track doesnt "offset" a bar or two the way you described it. Of course, this would require the uploader to actually take the time to set them marks properly... how does that sound ?
Its the only improvement I currently see that might attract peoples attention, the option to supply the information within track descriptions ("8 bars Verse, 4 bars Bridge...") has been there forever...
- two other things I am thinking about are: I think we might have an extra kind of "thumb" to be given as a means of saying "Thank you for the detailed chords" (or any other detailed information that made the track playable to me). Having that might actually make people feel there is a kind of reward for taking the time. Second idea: At some point, the search engine should be able to filter the results by exactly that crieterium: "Show me tracks with chord (or structure) info given only" would be an appropriate filter to add, same goes for "show me tracks with available single tracks". These options would allow to just ignore any tracks that do not supply the wanted details... it is a rather ruff move, but with 16k tracks to choose from, I believe this might be interesting to have.

Feel free to develop more ideas and keep throwing them my way :)

Last thought: Lets not forget that the "think about the next one joining" aspect and the "I dont see a change coming, how to know when it will come?" problems BOTH also exist in a real band. If you behave like a hog soundwise, dont leave any space for others or cant develop a feeling to when 16bars end, you will not be a loved member of any band. wikiloops helps us to work on that, and I have seen a lot of people who noticed their overall musical knowledge and skill had developed by jamming here. It is a challenge without the desired help, but those who take it benefit greatly. Lets not forget that before turning wikiloops into some kind of karaoke machine that tells you exactly when to play which chord :)

just a quick thought on the "time" issue of adding verse/chorus info to drum tracks. Im looking at it as being a time SAVING option for the next guy to come along.

one of the tracks I recorded was done when I decided I was going to write/record/mix/upload a track on a worknight. So that gave me like 2.5 hours of time altogether. I picked a drumtrack that had easy to follow "verse/chorus" info. That literally saved me probably 20 minutes as otherwise I might have had to get pencil and paper and chart it out myself. So that one small thing was the difference between me getting a track uploaded or simply not trying for lack of time

A guy like me, who is not a drummer, doesnt always know exactly what the drummer had in mind when he plays certain parts. for instance I am somewhat of an idiot when it comes to cymbals...so sometimes a little guidance would be nice.

Some of the better drum tracks might get 50 remixes. If the drummer (who knows the track the best) can spend a few minutes putting down that basic info it might save 50 people more than a few minutes. Of course I realize this is a voluntary site lol...there is no gun to anyones head.

Maybe there could be an option for others to supply that information if the drummer doesnt...sort of like the wikipedia method

Also, even more helpful than "4 bars this, 5 bars that" info would simply be a timeline:

0-:12 intro
:12-:36 verse
:36-:52 chorus

If there were some easy way for either the original player, or anyone, to add this info it would be great. Maybe an additional tab called "timeline" next (or part of) the "chord info" tab. That "timeline" tab could have a graphical method of allowing people to add markers to a timeline of the song showing points of interest like "verse" or "turnaround" or even literally "start singing here" lol.

Just brainstorming some, peace, JJ

Just to add my thoughts. I also agree with all the post here. As a player that somewhat reads music but not to good it would be nice to have the chords and notes so at least it gives you an idea on where to start and from there you could improvise. I am one who doesn't always put the notes or chords played in my playing. I will remember to do this on my future tracks. Thanks for the great post here.
Rickplayer

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Edited by Rickplayer on September 19 2014 15:27