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is the edrum a self playing piano???

posted on #1
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Posts: 16
Joined: 24.08.14
Hi loopers,

always I am reading these things like. Are you playing a "real" drum or things like that. I guess by now probably half or more of the drums played here are edrums.

And really what is so wrong about that.
It does not play by itself. All drums played on the edrum can be transported to the accoustic set. Its not that you are not playing it.

I can understand every drummer that loves his accoustic set.
My loved Sonor Force 3000 was stolen 2001. I still remember working 3 months in a factory after I finished school to buy it.That was about 1988.

After it was stolen I quit making music completely for more than 10 years.

No edrum can really replace an accoustic set.
But they are getting better.
I must say I am really happy with that.
I dont like the onboard sounds. It can never have the dynamic you have on a accoustic drum.

But honestly who is able to transport that in a MP 3 recording.
If you have 25 sqm room and the drum miced up correctly you still need a lot of knowledge.

I for myself have a 10 sqm washing room in the cellar of an apartment house.
There never is a chance for me to do anything there before 9 or 10 o'clock in the evening.
Impossible with an accoustic set.
Now i have about 30 GB of real recorded original drumsounds on the cheap edrum which I can play with a latency of about 2 ms and can choose if I want to play a Sonor, Tama, Ludwig or DW set and for me it almost feels real. Disadvantages: t I need about 15-20 minutes to set everything up, my hihat pedal is shit(bassdrum pedal any can be used), I have no ride bell on my cheap 2 zone crash pad, rebounce is a little different.

I would never use it live , anyhow I doubt I will ever play a live gig again, but to be honest even there, what will the common mixer of the small clubs or youth centres that people like me ever played in make of your drumsound. If your unlucky they even tape your toms up.
Drums gated and compressed so that anyhow nobody will here the details if your not lucky to play in a pub or only the bassdrum is miced.

For drummers complaining about the edrum I have a lot of understanding, but for guitarists and bassists complaining about anybody playing an edrum I have no understanding at all.
How many of you use all these guitar rig stuff, amplitube and stuff. So what you say, you still using your guitar.....same for us drummers we still play the drums.....

So long, will be nice to read what people think about that,.....
if not its also okay....:|
posted on #2
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Posts: 2080
Joined: 30.12.10
At the risk of you not liking me after what I think about your question - let me try an answer:
You are focusing on the e-drum / real drum comparison, but you are missing the third option: the programmed drums.

In short, programmed drums have the same sound benefits as edrums, as you have pointed out correctly.
Now, someone without any drumming experience can learn how to programm a very excellent sounding, and flawless-timed drumbeat by using some software - without one extra square foot of room needed.
My own experience when playing edrums were rather poor - you basicly have no way of knowing which of the three possible attack levels the pads will return, and to me, that was a real turn down. If you programm a beat by midi, you can carefully correct the dynamics as you go, and get a better sound result than by entering the midi notes thru an edrum kit.

When people ask you wether you are playing edrums, I'd think most want to find out if you programmed or edrummed, and anybody would go WOW to find out you are one of the lucky guys who know how to tune & record their set so it sounds as good as the samples you mentioned :)

And last - about the complaining non-drummers - if you jam with people at your place, on downturn of an edrum kit is that the sound is not coming from your instrument, but from the speakers - this creates a much harder to locate sound experience, and will hardly develop the punch a real drumset gives. Especially in a noisy jam room situation, the physycal punch coming from a real bassdrum is much easier to perceive than the bassdrum sample coming from the (possibly quite busy) PA.

As a drummer, I'd like to add that (even tho I never counted them), I'd say I can play over fifty recognizably different sounds on one real snare - never came across any pad that would allow that.
Well, you mentioned the downsides yourself - and of course you are right about the advantages. Most importantly, you should not feel questioned or offended by people asking the e-drum question IMO - you have made your choice for good reasons (a sound decision, indeed). That's totally cool with me.
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #3
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Posts: 2080
Joined: 30.12.10
... oh, and as someone who has engineered quite a lot of small venue gigs with questionable in-house-equipment, I'm affraid I'd even throw the sound issue back at you:
If you really care about your sound as a drummer, you better bring your own mics / submixer to any venue. You are right about the common problems you mention about the live situation - if you are aware of them, its in your hands to fix that.
If you want to play live, you should be able to handle the needed technical gear - I have met people who claimed to sing well, but who had no idea how to work with a microphone and a monitor on a huge stage... is that a good singer, then?
People blaming the engineers for bad sound often didn't do their homework (I'm not saying you are one of them!) - and the most professional people I have worked with had the most sophisticated technical setups, brought their own mics and politely asked where they could plug in, while the bloody amateurs were the ones complaining...
"Sorry - had to do it!" - Les Claypool

yes, you are looking at the administrators signature.
posted on #4
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Posts: 16
Joined: 24.08.14
Thks for the reply Dick. Like you say the edrum is probably not the right thing for a live environment like for a concert or a practice room.
For the programmed drums. This is certainly an extra option you have as evry track is recorded as a midi table. I can shift around and modify every played stroke or even write it in notes if i'd know how to that. I doubt though that anybody who listens to my drumming will think that I am doing that :D. I really the drums with all mistakes. I think if single hits are moved or loudness is adjusted is okay, but I think every close listener can hear it when the whole song is completely been written or quantized. People can do what they want but a reason why they still like drummers is that hard quantized loops and patterns are a little boring.
For the zones of the pads thats right thogh I am using superior drummer. I dont think that its using 2 zones on the toms. There is only one sound. On the snare I have to pick if i want to have a rim shot or a sidestick sound. I admit thats stupid so I usualy stay with the rim shot and not use that at all.
Whats really needs a little to get used to or what is really not so nice is the crashes and the Hihat. Here the superior drummer differs mainly between rim and edge. That I don't like. Especially because I don't have a 3 zones ride , so I can not play a bell or have to put the bell on the edge which feels wrong.
I think for dynamic there is 8 Steps( somebody correct me if I am wrong). To play the snare feels natural to me. You can play ghostnotes and even small nuances are recognizable. Somehow Toontrack is modifying the loudness of every stroke , so it will not have this strange feeling like you have on the onboard edrum sounds.
Sorry I end up making advertisement for something I never thought i'd like. If somebody would have asked me 2 years ago, I would also said I do not like it at all.
posted on #5
Supporter
Posts: 16
Joined: 24.08.14
Thks for the reply Dick. Like you say the edrum is probably not the right thing for a live environment like for a concert or a practice room.
For the programmed drums. This is certainly an extra option you have as evry track is recorded as a midi table. I can shift around and modify every played stroke or even write it in notes if i'd know how to that. I doubt though that anybody who listens to my drumming will think that I am doing that :D. I really the drums with all mistakes. I think if single hits are moved or loudness is adjusted is okay, but I think every close listener can hear it when the whole song is completely been written or quantized. People can do what they want but a reason why they still like drummers is that hard quantized loops and patterns are a little boring.
For the zones of the pads thats right thogh I am using superior drummer. I dont think that its using 2 zones on the toms. There is only one sound. On the snare I have to pick if i want to have a rim shot or a sidestick sound. I admit thats stupid so I usualy stay with the rim shot and not use that at all.
Whats really needs a little to get used to or what is really not so nice is the crashes and the Hihat. Here the superior drummer differs mainly between rim and edge. That I don't like. Especially because I don't have a 3 zones ride , so I can not play a bell or have to put the bell on the edge which feels wrong.
I think for dynamic there is 8 Steps( somebody correct me if I am wrong). To play the snare feels natural to me. You can play ghostnotes and even small nuances are recognizable. Somehow Toontrack is modifying the loudness of every stroke , so it will not have this strange feeling like you have on the onboard edrum sounds.
Sorry I end up making advertisement for something I never thought i'd like. If somebody would have asked me 2 years ago, I would also said I do not like it at all.;)
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