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It's More Than Music Here

posted on #1
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Not a novel idea, but it occurred to me today that this site represents much more than musical collaboration. I am sure Dick had said this was part of his vision in creating Wikiloops, but for some reason it really hit me today that this is actually happening here, and it is powerful. It is incredible to think that people from all over the world can work together on projects that are fun, creative, and exhilarating. It shows the power of humanity to work together to do good. Too bad that doesn't happen more often here on planet Earth.
Just a random thought :)
posted on #2
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How true...no one is negative on the loops
Everyone is happy to help. In the end we create something good and enjoyable. The world should take note of what has been accomplished here on the loops. It would be a better place to live...
posted on #3
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Indeed we all are very positive for everyone’s uploads, and that’s a good thing, it stimulates and makes us keep uploading, on the other hand I miss some info on how a recording is done, what was used in the add and why, what instrument was used and why ,what was the inspiration? Info ‘bout great plugs, mixing techniques, recording setups, mastering techniques …. and …I don’t mind when someone gives a mild criticism on my uploads, so I can try to make them better, and isn’t that what we all want ,getting better ?or maybe explain why I did what I did….I hear on wiki great recordings and I want to know how they are done, I want to learn. Comments like cool..,fab…,a gem,..killer …a great one …are nice to read but it doesn’t make my recordings any better ,so I stagnate. I know it’s all ‘bout fun on wiki, but learning can be fun too.
posted on #4
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Well said John and I agree.
posted on #5
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I agree also if you feel down, just come here and see what is going on lots of positive things. Even the discussions between members will brighten your day. Not to mention the feeling when you jump in on a tune. Wikiloops (ISIS) meaning (Instrumental Symphony Individual Singers). That is how it is here on the wiki and the world should join in the music fun.
posted on #6
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To me, it's Facebook for musicians of all abilities and even people who just enjoy music for what it is: a joy, a pleasure and the 'Loops is an excellent exponent of just how powerful music is in its ability to transcend differences of race, creed, colour or belief. The fact it's 'grass roots' just adds to its credibility. There's more good feeling here than fifty years of 'benefit concerts' in my opinion! There's rarely negativity on here because it's a place of happy and willing collaboration without judgement. The politicians of this world could learn a lot from here! It is my favourite corner of the internet, I've turned my back on Facebook, Twitter, et al, because it offers nothing for me other than lies, negativity, arguing and divided opinion. And a lot of cats. WikiLoops is all that remains of any public internet presence for me. Because I'm proud to be part of it.

Johnv: I try to address your concerns in my every upload. Many have commented on my upload descriptions as being a useful insight into my creative process and they seem to enjoy them so I continue with them, wordy though they are (and I often hit the character limit!). But, in fairness, I'm a native English speaker (WL's, I guess, 'default' language) so find it easy. I can imagine non-English speakers may struggle through fear of translations not being right!

My profile contains all the details of the equipment I use to record. Like you, I'd love to read more about how people approached the music in the descriptions. I've also done forum threads on how I process it all. Maybe I'm just too much of a nerd!
posted on #7
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I agree, I always enjoy reading about the recording/mixing process, I will try to give more information. I am a bit worried though as I really don't know what I am doing when it comes to mixing/software effects, I keep on turning knobs and settings until I get something that sounds good to me. I am sure lots of the stuff I do with the effects/mixing is embarrassingly wrong :D
posted on #8
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So good to hear how important this site is to those above (and probably a large number here). I don't participate in any type of social media except for this site...and that's probably because it's more focused on music rather than social issues. Agree with John and have given critical comments when and where there may be acceptance and possibly a point of view that could help. Honest opinions that are intended to help should be welcome although seldom offered.

I'm often in awe of the technical wizardry of member's recording and mixing, yet my eyes glaze over when the discussion is too technical. It must be wonderful to have that knowledge. I'm just glad if I can play something that works musically. Fortunately this site does not demand a high level of sound engineering and most are primarily listening to the music.

It's hard to know when receiving comments like "cool, fab, killer, etc." whether this is a genuine comment by someone who has actually listened to the track, or an ingenuous (facebook style) social bit of back-slapping. We are all pressed in our lives for time, with few of us able to listen fully to all the tracks of those we "follow", much less newcomer's offerings.

Hard to know what the future is for wikiloops and its members. With increasing numbers of members and tracks it may be that we divide ourselves into socio-musical groups that keep us from overload. These sorts of social dynamics are predictable, but were probably not foreseen. Hopefully all will still works as segments within a larger framework, although it may seem a less friendly place to newcomers who aren't part of one of the existing socio-musical circles.

Well, that's more than enough from me!

Cheers all.
Edited by Wade on February 11 2016 22:22
posted on #9
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That's an interesting point, Wade. WL is, certainly for me, getting to the point where I just can't keep up with the flow of music, let alone listen, thumb, comment and contribute. It's rare I thumb something without giving a (hopefully) constructive comment. And, as a result, I find myself focussing on the players with whom I've enjoyed so many loops with and feel I play best with because I just cannot keep up otherwise.

I'd hate to see the loops break up into groups (I guess the private bands feature is sort of that) or, as you so eloquently put, socio-musical groupings and will fight any addition of such features. This will lead to a perception of elitism or cliques to newcomers, I feel. It happens on forums, it happens everywhere. WL is open to all - it is no more judgemental of ability than it is of your origins, it must stay that way even if we can't keep up with the flow!

I've considered for while stopping adding to tracks (apart from the odd one which really grabs my attention) and just doing templates. That way, provide the help for others rather than just indulge my musical musings. There certainly seems to be a never-ending appetite for good quality drum templates and it would be selfish of me not to oblige.
Edited by mpointon on February 15 2016 10:46
posted on #10
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HI there,
It was great interest to read this topic posts...
"It's more than music here..."
Just like Wade, I'm not involved in any kind of social network except here at WL.
But I do not consider that WL is a social network like others.
From my experience or feeling it's an interactive tool which enables musicians to practise, improve and play.
But most of all, here, we do produce something. We share what we make with the help of others. We bring our sensibility, skills and feelings.
It's both a personal and a common achievement from playing. It enables me pleasure when playing at a point I couldn't reach if playing alone.

I've red what Wade said around a kind of fear about "socio-musical circles" and the fact it could lead to a less friendly place to new comers.

I'm a new comer... And I've well noticed when discovering WL that musical affinities create some kind of groups. As martin said "it happens everywhere..."

Talking about musicians level. I always remind that music, in my opinion is a great everyday humbling experience. I've had a 16 years break with playing and some musicians level and diversity are highly motivating and stimulating me if I want to recover and improve my play, join and try to bring a part of my creativity to others.

The musician part of my being woke up one year ago. And I've tried to join local bands.
I have to confess that I can't cope anymore with what I experimented when playing with bands younger. Some adults are stuck in an ego dimension around the fact of playing even (I would say mainly in fact...) when poor players.
Real life playing is not really a friendly place for new comers...

I just want to play, have some fun, express myself and share feelings when playing.
Hard to find a perfect combination of musical and human affinities.
We do not have that kind of problem at WL.

About the "comments" or "making comments" part: It's some way kind a "Care Bears" universe.
It is not a constructive process, but as Rickplayer said, it's positive. WL is a community of caring musicians.
Thanks again to the loopers who have posted some comments around my tracks ^^

So... I have no real hindsight around my WL experience so far, this is just a testimony from a new comer.
Music making is a personnal process, but it is pointless or has no meaning if not shared.
Whatever how it is shared. That's why in my opinion, "here it's more than music..."
Edited by Funkystan on February 15 2016 16:06
posted on #11
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I agree totally with wade. And as critzism i rather take some constructive negative than totally meaningless but good. Actually i am the first to notice if i play good and i think this applies for everyone.
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posted on #12
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There are more remixers than template starters. I feel squeezed out. I'm guilty of it, too. I haven't uploaded that many templates although I try. Perhaps I need to branch my playing out to more instruments. And, yes, I'm not ashamed to say that I like comments & thumbs. In order to be a social network you need to have interaction between yourself and the listeners.
Edited by DannyK on February 15 2016 17:44
posted on #13
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Hi Nilton...
I'd also like to take some negative but constructive comments.
Let's ask the WL developers how this idea could be set up...
posted on #14
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Everyone loves to hear good things about the tracks they upload. But I also agree that if someone really has something to offer that would be beneficial and help me improve, I would want to hear what they have to say.

You could always message a person if you want to share constructive negative comments. This way it will be between you and that person and not everyone on Wikiloops to see.
posted on #15
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[url=http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-3678.php] This [/url]is what i call a good example of constructive criticism. I admit i am a little on the defensive side in my reply but things need time to sink in. But most things said in the comments still hold
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posted on #16
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I don't have many tracks posted yet. Truth be told, I'm a little insecure about how they'll turn out because I have to do all my takes with headphones. I'm sure most of you know doing that is a crap shoot. I myself would like to see more constructive criticism, because it can,and will help people create better recordings. Others might hear something in the mix we don't, or have advice on what could be added to the mix to fatten it up a bit, and make it sound better. Just my 2 cents worth.
"If that's a groove, the Grand Canyon's a ditch." - Geoffrey to Uncle Phil on the "Fresh Prince of Bell Aire.
posted on #17
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Well, this subject has been talked about several times, but as it stands there won't be any criticism allowed... I took the point that I prefer to be told the truth, and more importantly told how and what to improve. I know I am not very good at many things related to playing and recording, and the only way I did improve was listening to the constructive criticism that some good people here wrote, which I really appreciated. But, unfortunately in this politically correct world of today when you say to someone that the song is out of key, or not in beat or whatever, you get nasty replies. I was viciously attacked in this forum just for suggesting we should be more honest about our comments - and I repeat: I do not want put downs or nasty comments, just helpful criticism...

I understand the pros and cons of the constructive criticism matter though, whatever is the standard here I will adhere to.

All in all this is a great great place, and you meet some amazing people and musicians here, that's for sure!
posted on #18
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TG_Strat wrote:
"...but as it stands there won't be any criticism allowed..."

this is not true, there is no such statement on wikiloops as "criticism is not allowed", I don't know where you got that from tbh.

There are two things that have been done on wikiloops to preserve the praised positive spirit of this platform:
I re-labeled the "post comment" button to "post compliment" for the fun of it,
and we have been calling people to order who have shown a tendency of leaving non-constructive bashing comments. That's all.

If you want honest feedback on some aspect of your recordings (say, sound), I'd recommend saying so in your tracks description. Showing interest in criticism is a good way to let people know you are actually after tips on what to improve.
Please never forget this is a multi-cultural environment here, so taking your own view on criticism as "normal" may not apply here- which is why diplomatic care and well-chosen words are recommended. You would not want to find out someone was deeply offended and left the cmmunity just because of something you said, thinking it would improve the guys playing.

Giving constructive criticism in a foreign language can easily go wrong, too, I have had to moderate several cases where google translate turned a witty thought into an offensive onslaught... which leaves me thankfull if people avoid this.

"It's more than music here" is the title of this thread, and I'd like to thank those who expressed their feelings and perceptions above.
From my personal point of view, it is a lot more than music here, with all the technical details and the social & educational experience happening. You may observe various phenomenons and go off to quite abstract thoughts about "what is this thing wikiloops", and I would like to add that -to me-, the social behaviour of the sum of individuals using wikiloops has more impact on what it "is" than what I could have done on the programmatic level :)
Edited by Dick on February 16 2016 11:23
posted on #19
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What TG_strat says is very pertinent:
"I prefer to be told... what and how to improve..."
I guess this would suppose a willing to be constructively critized and helped. Short comments are not that helpful as far as they don't concretely show what the suggestion would be.

We also have to consider that words are very importants and here we are talking about members coming from 146 countries. I'm French and I allways have to think on what I'm writting in order to avoid a "qui proquo" or a misunderstanding translation.

If there was a Wikiloops section called "Help me and show me..." I would be the first one to upload a track.
Here at Wiki, we have a great "sharing ideas tool", we could upload/download a track and ask for/add suggestions playing on beside (or cutting some parts)to the one who requires it.
I've learned how to play by myself and I've never had a teacher, it could have been useful and I guess it still can be.

I was thinking on the best way to express myself about what TG_strat has written when Dick posted his comment. I haven't seen it before I posted mine. Seems like he has said things better than I could do.

Yes Nilton, I guess new ideas are blooming from this thread... ;-)
Edited by Funkystan on February 16 2016 13:35
posted on #20
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What about testing some new ideas, for example turn a concept into a lesson and upload it
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