Turning poetry into lyrics !

Wikiloops has a lyrics exchange forum which is great for non-wordy musicians who want to add vocals and meaning to their compositions..

However, as a poet myself, I have a problem trying to turn the written word into a singable song lyric.

I've known wonderful poets who try to record their words musically, but the song becomes too difficult to listen to and digest the full meaning. Words don't fit the pattern of their music, they are fine when spoken or read but the sung version doesn't work for me.

For impact, a song lyric should have a repeated mantra or motif that a listener can latch on to and anticipate its return. Poetry doesn't always have that.

Some poems can have sonic qualities and may inspire melody ; some often have usable rhythmic quality too. But my problem is finding the balance between meaningful literature and memorable song lyrics.

How does an instrumentalist judge a possible lyric for their music without understanding the dynamics of words and what works for listeners ? To be effective a lyrical vocal has to be quite loud too, not subtle or ambient (imho)

I guess Bob Dylan got it about right. :)

---

Great topic Shamika. To answer that particular question, for me, it's very crudely. When I look for lyrics for a particular song (in the Lyrics Forum), I've generally got a pattern or amount of words/syllables in my head that I can fit into "verse" form. I actually don't look for meaning of the words, or a particular "topic", I'll look at the amount of words, the rhyme pattern, and determine if that amount of syllables fits into the verse flow I have in mind. So it's a glance at the words, if too wordy, then next.

Not being one who randomly writes things for poem or story in advance, I write on the fly to the song of my choosing. Lyrics like that, for me at least, are never really deep, very on the surface, because it's written on the fly and to fit a particular pattern. When I run into a rhyming issue, I'll visit https://www.rhymezone.com/ for some possible rhyming words :)

---

Just to add, I would also suggest reaching out to your fellow loopers to 'collab' on something. If you've got something written, and enjoy someone's style/playing, send them the poem/lyrics, see if they're interested in creating a track/song based on how they interpret those lyrics. I've done the opposite, I may create a guitar template with someone in mind, and I'll reach out to them to see if they're interested in writing lyrics and singing to it. Of course, I always say that if they aren't feeling it, then no problem, I won't be offended in any way :)

---

I liked your views rootshell, you see it from a slightly different perspective, a musician's priority is probably the music so simple lyrics are adequate and why not !

I have, in the past given my poems to musicians to use as lyrics but hearing the results is sometimes rather frustrating, they tend to sound pedestrian and as if they're being read :)

I'd liken it to musicians reading sheet music... everyone reads the same notes but the interpretation is the dividing line between average and special.

In my opinion, the most successful lyrics are the one's you write about your own realities (situations, hopes. experiences) Nobody can live your life or document it as accurately as you would yourself.

---

Interesting topic indeed, here's my two cent (minus inflation...)

Let me go at it at a different angle:
To me, there is that quite distinctive line between poems and song lyrics - they have in common that both use rhymes and are emotional and word-playish,
but as Shamika pointed out, a good song lyric has quite different characteristics than a good poem.

There is the need for repetitiveness in song lyrics, the more or less fixed tempo during the delivery does not make a lot of room for letting a too witty poem line sink in properly, or make meaningfull pauses between the crucial bits.
A song will just drive you thru the lines, no time to stop for too long without destroying the musical groove.
Instead of flexible pauses, a musical track offers the changes, bridges, choruses meta-level, which can be used smartly to indicate a change of thought, or add contrast or tension in a way that a poem can't reproduce.

Reciting a poem on top of some music in a spoken word way is something that may work, but most attempts to sing a poem will fail, it's a different language design to me.

What I have done in the past is attempt to write somewhat meaningful lyrics, with a song performance in mind and a close eye on counting syllables. And it occurs to me that, the more you are aiming to have a singable lyric with melodic singing and stretched vowels, the shallower the lyrics tend to become, so, I kinda went for some "more rap than singing"-lyric delivery.
That way, you can squeeze in a lot of meaning and still have a repeating hookline every now and then. That's basicly how any rap/hiphop track works, and, well, it works if you have some message to deliver.

On a funny side note, you can make almost every poem singable by adding a lot of "oh nanana", "yeah yeah" and "la la la" to make it more singable - that may not be suitable on any poem and is not a good idea really, might be fun tho.

And last, to add some inter-culturalism here: The german word for poem is "Gedicht", which contains the word "dicht", meaning "closely together" or "dense". That kind of hints at the fact that real poems are a very very condensed type of communication, whereas songs (german "Lied", sounds like lead...) are everything but condensed (think of old McDonald... hee-ya-hee-ya-ho!), most often, the information is rather dribbling slowly in song lyrics... At the end of my german lesson, let me mention that "Lyrik" in german actually covers any non-prose text, so its more of a general category containing both song lyrics and poems. Them germans...

There absolutely are some songs that have deep and meaningful lyrics on a poems quality level (somehow thinking of Princes Purple Rain as one example right now), but I'm not sure if the same can be said of text initially produced as a poem and then becoming a major musical hit.
Or does anyone know examples of that?

---

I think that this story or perhaps Tommy would qualify as singable but still a lot of storytelling. although there is reputation in it I couldn't stop singing this stuff as a young lad [youtube]nyN7WUKRicw[/youtube]

---

Very interesting subject, thank you Shamika for again finding a GREAT subject for discussion.

There was once a complete album made by Carla Bruni (French first lady at one point) called No promises.

Allmusic review said "...Set to a brisk Jack Johnson-style swinging guitar, the poem becomes stripped of all its meaning: no one word is allowed to stand out, as each line is madly shoehorned into a sensible rhythm, and the wistful, yearning tone of the poem gets lost in the breezy melody of the song. Therein lies the problem. Bruni's blues guitar template is too rigid to allow these words to breathe."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Promises_(Carla_Bruni_album)


[youtube]0JHp4HNdKlA[/youtube]

---

Some interesting points to consider here, thanks all.

My conclusion (if there is one) is that if a writer/vocalist wants to put their message across forcefully, the best way is for a 'half sung rap' or a punchy screamo - the backing can almost fight with the vocalist for space :)

If a writer/singer wants to be 'felt' and understood the lyric should be measured and subtly rhymed, minimal and in sympathy with the music backing.

"ooh" "aah" "yeah" "Baby" and multiple note vowels are effective fillers (as you suggested Dick)

Rap/Hiphop today has become duel purpose - the 'poetry' is rapid, a rhyming rant... but the chorus is often smooth and melodic making a welcome bridge between the intense word spill :)

The German "Lied" is translated as an Art song - a poem set to music, and I can't think of a successful commercial one. The Rudyard Kipling poem "If" has been used many times, but I don't think it works.

I went through my files last night and I have some nice poems that I'd like to sing rather than recite, just waiting for the right music to come up. Thank you x

---

I really love how you write Ms Shamika,some of your work is very evocative and true and sensitive and meaningful, but you also write with a sense of fun and humour too that can bring a smile :)

---

Well thank you Ms Shi :) What a lovely summing up <3, We all need those smiles, even through hard times, sad times, bad and frustrating times... It's not always easy, but music helps :)

---

Just a little post script I wanted to add.

Over the years I have been asked to sing lyrics written by friends and others. I find it hard to let people down but I'm really not comfortable singing lyrics that I didn't write. I've tried but always end up changing the words or the layout.... and that leads to tension sometimes. :(

---

Hmmm... maybe we have a different idea of what it means to be a commercial success. In classical/art music it's rather common to set poems to music (as songs, or as choir music) and (at least in my opinion) that often works quite well. To give an example (but there are tons more): 24 poems by German poet Wilhelm Müller were set to music by Franz Schubert in a work known as "Winterreise". As we speak these songs have been recorded over 200 times, and they are also sung live all over the world on a regular basis.

---